Gaelic teaching

[Kavi Ugl]

I'll repeat my main point which is that under no circumstances should Gaelic be brought into, or taught in Shetland in any form.  It's bad and pointless enough that the bairns are forced to learn French never mind Gaelic.

 

All these empty "it's not compulsary" and "it's only if requested" cries miss the point that what we're seeing is just the thin end of the wedge.

 

Mark my words, it will eventually be made compulsary from in the schools to tourism so starting from now we have fight and stop it dead.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Kavi Ugl

[tarsus]

hi, perhaps teaching correct English pronunciation and spelling  would help the kids when they go out into the world, I remember some years ago when on an electrical course in Edinburgh there was a lad from Orkney who could not be understood by anyone on the course including the tutors, I do not think that he learned a lot on that course.

[George.]

hi, perhaps teaching correct English pronunciation and spelling  would help the kids when they go out into the world, I remember some years ago when on an electrical course in Edinburgh there was a lad from Orkney who could not be understood by anyone on the course including the tutors, I do not think that he learned a lot on that course.

 

Grammar?

[Capeesh]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having looked a bit more into this story it seems there's been a large slice of scaremongering going on.

Gaelic will only be taught in Shetland schools if there's a demand by parents for it.

I read Tavish Scott's attack in the Shetland Times, I voted for Tavish in 2011 and I find it sad that this is what the Lib Dems have been reduced to, it made me wonder what the Lib Dem policy on Gaelic teaching was.

What I found made me laugh because of the extreme hypocrisy of it.

In the Lib Dem manifesto for the Scottish elections in 2011 it states the Lib Dems will...

"Support Gaelic medium education where there is demand and promote the language in cost effective ways."

Tavish is attacking a policy which is EXACTLY the same as the policy he was arguing for in the last Scottish election.

 

Tavish has never said he is against the policy per se.

 

The main issue is where is the money to come from? Foisting the teaching of a minority language onto a region that has no solid cultural links with that language and dictating that part of the existing education budget should be used to finance it (with no extra funds being allocated) is the real problem.

 

The other issue is the creeping 'Gaelicisation' of Scotland and the Isles. It's already started elsewhere.

Tavish was saying Shetland schools would be forced to teach Gaelic, this is not the case.

The policy is to make Gaelic available where there's demand for it, as Shetland has no history of Gaelic speaking then obviously there's no demand for it here, so no Gaelic.

I don't want my children to learn Gaelic but I can fully understand why people in Gaelic speaking areas would want their children to learn it, I'm sure the people who want to protect the Shetland dialect can empathise.

What I can't understand is the fact that in the last Lib Dem manifesto that Tavish fought the last election on, there was a pledge to...

"Support Gaelic medium teaching where there is demand and promote the language in cost effective ways."

His fellow Lib Dems in Gaelic speaking areas are shouting from the rooftops about how they are going to make Gaelic available to any who want to learn.

Where were they going to find the money?

Has Lib Dem Policy changed?

Has Tavish told his Lib Dem colleagues in Gaelic speaking areas that no money should be spent on Gaelic?

Edited February 8, 2016 by Capeesh

[Roachmill]

 

On the flip side: how much will it cost Shetland not to teach Gaelic?

 

Am I missing something? From where I'm sitting the answer is a big round zero, zilch.

 

We're not teaching it right now, so what are we missing out on? We have even more minimal truck with gaelic speaking areas than we have resident gaelic speakers, and there's no reason to suppose that's likely to change anytime soon.

 

You're missing nothing as far as I can see. That's why this is a non-story... yet it's still getting paid plenty lip service.

 

Kavi, with all due respect, this really doesn't need much fighting to stop it dead. It's dead and buried already as far as Shetland goes, never mind other resource strapped locations. I can't see anyone other than existing Gaelic speakers fighting for this - and good on them.

[hjasga]

I'll repeat my main point which is that under no circumstances should Gaelic be brought into, or taught in Shetland in any form.  It's bad and pointless enough that the bairns are forced to learn French never mind Gaelic.

Why?

[Scorrie]

 

 

The policy is to make Gaelic available where there's demand for it, as Shetland has no history of Gaelic speaking then obviously there's no demand for it here, so no Gaelic.

........

 

There's the rub, Capeesh. I believe you are being a tad complacent here.

How many folk expressing an interest in Gaelic education for their children would it take to tip the scales on this one?

I'm sure there'll be a few interested out there.......

 

Anyway, good luck to anyone learning Gaelic. it's a fine language. I just don't expect Shetland to stump up for it out of their already overstretched budget.

[whalsa]

Absolutely nothing wrong with anyone wanting to learn Gaelic or indeed wanting their bairns to learn it. However this should never get to the stage where it is coming out of Shetland's education budget. 

Hopefully this is indeed all hot air and will never get to that point. If I remember correctly knitting and fiddle tuition were cut from the schools to save money, both those things have much greater cultural relevance to Shetland than speaking Gaelic ever will. Something far wrong if schools are forced to spend money on irrelevant teachings whilst locally relevant subjects are cut. 

[Kavi Ugl]

 

I'll repeat my main point which is that under no circumstances should Gaelic be brought into, or taught in Shetland in any form.  It's bad and pointless enough that the bairns are forced to learn French never mind Gaelic.

Why?

 

Well, if you can't understand "why" then there's no point in explaining it to you.

 

I totally disagree with Whalsa, there's everything wrong with people wanting their bairns to learn Gaelic *if* it's in Shetland.

 

Gaelic is a foreign language to Shetland and should not be offered or taught here. 

 

On the other hand, the Shetland dialect is littered with Norwegian words but thanks to a politically motivated education system Norwegian is never offered as a language in the schools....

 

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Edited February 9, 2016 by Kavi Ugl

[Capeesh]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The policy is to make Gaelic available where there's demand for it, as Shetland has no history of Gaelic speaking then obviously there's no demand for it here, so no Gaelic.........

 

There's the rub, Capeesh. I believe you are being a tad complacent here.

How many folk expressing an interest in Gaelic education for their children would it take to tip the scales on this one?

I'm sure there'll be a few interested out there.......

 

Anyway, good luck to anyone learning Gaelic. it's a fine language. I just don't expect Shetland to stump up for it out of their already overstretched budget.

I would describe it as being realistic rather than complacent.

I can't see anywhere near the demand required to trigger Gaelic being taught in Shetland's schools.

I don't like being duped and misled by Tavish and others, nobody's saying Gaelic will be forced where there's no demand.

The policy is clear, the focus of Gaelic teaching is to...

"...ensure that in Scotland’s most strongly Gaelic-speaking communities, Gaelic continues to be in use as a community language..."

It also states they would only...

"...introduce an entitlement to Gaelic medium education where reasonable demand exists..."

As Shetland doesn't match either of the quoted criteria and bearing in mind the limited funds available, I think it's safe to say that the likelihood of Gaelic being taught in Shetland's schools is about the same as Swahili, Ancient Greek or Armenian.

The funny thing is that ALL the mainstream parties in Scotland have almost exactly the same policy they're ALL committed to spending money on Gaelic.

[whalsa]

 

 

I'll repeat my main point which is that under no circumstances should Gaelic be brought into, or taught in Shetland in any form.  It's bad and pointless enough that the bairns are forced to learn French never mind Gaelic.

Why?

 

Well, if you can't understand "why" then there's no point in explaining it to you.

 

I totally disagree with Whalsa, there's everything wrong with people wanting their bairns to learn Gaelic *if* it's in Shetland.

 

Gaelic is a foreign language to Shetland and should not be offered or taught here. 

 

On the other hand, the Shetland dialect is littered with Norwegian words but thanks to a politically motivated education system Norwegian is never offered as a language in the schools....

 

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Kavi I think you missed my point. There is nothing wrong with anyone wanting themselves or their bairns to learn ANY language on the planet including Gaelic. It is after all a free country and people can learn anything they want to. 

I agreed with you in that Gaelic should not be offered in Shetland schools or come out of any public budget. 

 

If people want to teach their bairns Klingon that is up to them but they should have to do it in their own time with their own money. 

 

Not sure what you are completely disagreeing with? 

[hjasga]

 

 

I'll repeat my main point which is that under no circumstances should Gaelic be brought into, or taught in Shetland in any form.  It's bad and pointless enough that the bairns are forced to learn French never mind Gaelic.

Why?

 

Well, if you can't understand "why" then there's no point in explaining it to you.

 

I asked a genuine question as it's not a view I've often heard expressed before. 

 

If it's so irrational that you can't even explain it succinctly then I suppose I don't care after all. 

[Claadehol]

As has already been pointed out, there is no historical or cultural connection with Gaelic in these islands. Therefore, even if some parents would wish it taught, it shouldn't be forced onto an already stretched education budget.

Keep Gaelic alive by all means, but keep it where it belongs, in the Western Isles and west coast.

Why not have Hungarian or Polish taught? It makes as much sense!  Some parents might wish to see these on the curriculum, and these languages are far more common here than Gaelic.

And these languages might be useful when the independence dream comes to fruition, when Scotland remains in Europe and the rest of the UK is out.  When Scotland is flowing with milk and honey, and oil of course. When the oil revenues are such that all the SNP promises can be easily fulfilled.

When Scotland can send a fluent contingent of Gaelic speakers to Brussels. That should shake 'em up in Europe.

God help us! 

[Kavi Ugl]

 

 

 

I'll repeat my main point which is that under no circumstances should Gaelic be brought into, or taught in Shetland in any form.  It's bad and pointless enough that the bairns are forced to learn French never mind Gaelic.

Why?

 

Well, if you can't understand "why" then there's no point in explaining it to you.

 

I asked a genuine question as it's not a view I've often heard expressed before. 

 

If it's so irrational that you can't even explain it succinctly then I suppose I don't care after all. 

 

 

Ok, apologies for being a peerie bit hasty.

 

I remember being forced to learn French at the AHS and feel that it's as irrelevant now as it was then. 

 

There may be some historical tie between Scotland and France but it certainly doesn't apply to Shetland.

 

I'm angry that our historic ties with Norway are quietly ignored in the (Shetland/Scottish)education system and the Shetland schools meekly tow the Scottish Education line and teach the bairns French instead.

 

Sorry Whalsa, I maybe misunderstood.  I agree that under no circumsnatces should Gaelic be allowed into Shetland in an official capacity.  If a parent wants to teach their bairn Gaelic in the privacy of their own home that's up to them.

 

Edited February 10, 2016 by Kavi Ugl

[whalsa]

Personally I very much regret not learning another language at School. I didn't like French either and that was the only option. Being fluent in other commonly spoken languages is not irrelevant IMO. The problem is deciding which ones should be offered and then how to fund it.

Maybe in these days of interactive language courses/apps bairns could have a "languages" class and try to learn a language of their choice? Not sure how that would work in practice though.