Underage drinking

[Ghostrider]

.....in Shetland underage drinking is out of control and it doesn't matter how you dress it up or try explain it.

 

You keep saying this, but where's the proof that its any different now than its been for at least the last half century?

 

I might be persuaded to back your POV if I was seeing evidence to back it up, but I'm not so far. Nor am I persuaded that underage drinking, generally speaking is responsible for lasting harm or acts as a gateway to a lifetime of problems. My peers during early teenage years are all on the wrong side of 50 now, and looking back on the dozen or so of them who are already in the ground as a direct consequence of one addiction or another, plus those still alive but killing themselves slowly with one, I am seeing only those who in their teens respected the law to the letter, or were indifferent/disinterested in experimentation, but when they did finally get interested in later years, they took to their mind-bending substance of choice hard and fast.

 

I fully realise that the above is just one example, and won't be replicated in everyone's personal experience, there are undoubtedly some people who began off as underage users of whatever that that was the door that opened them up to their lifetime of issue, but unless evidence is produced that such folk are in significnt number and that that number is incresing steadily, I'm not seeing anything worth getting excited over.

 

I'm certainly not up for condoning excessive drinking, nor encourging it, whatever age a person is, but I'm not going to get all excited about some teens making arses of themselves with it either, if for no other reason than with most teens, as its always been with most teens, when they catch on it does wind us olds up, it just encourges them to do it more frequently and to greater excess. If us olds ignore it as far as humanly possible, they only have their mates opinions to play on, and one thing you can rely on with teens, if one of a group ends up making  twat of themselves the rest of the group will never tire of extracting the urine over it, which pretty much ensures that group remains self-regulating an nobody wnts to find themselves in the role of being the group joke.

[wotsit]

Underage drinking is everywhere I agree.

 

Difference with Shetland it has become part of an ingrained culture and is accepted / tolerated

It is this attitude that has to change, if we cannot start with the adults/parents and start to make them responsible what hope for the kids who will copy the adults.

If you want to take further you could say it amounts to child abuse/neglect and if takes a few jail sentences and some interviews with the police to drive the message home then so be it.

It appears to acceptable for kids to go out on the lash at a certain age.

If you don't drink you are odd .

On Shetland you told to accept it part of the culture and if police are not going even try to be seen stop it, its just ridiculous.

In some cases from i'm hearing some parents are even supplying  the drink.

Edited January 2, 2016 by wotsit

[zebedee]

Who said it's everywhere? I have yet to see you back up your claims with ANYTHING even close to evidence.

 

If you are taking what I said to mean it's everywhere you are misinterpreting what I said. Effectively I said it MAY be more visible. Not that it is everywhere.

 

'Parents are even supplying the drink'. Uhuh. Another unsubstantiated comment which you yourself admit is hearsay.

 

Just WHAT are you hoping to achieve with this thread?

[Ghostrider]

^^ It is a parental issue, that much I will agree, but why the whole population should be responsible for raising someone else's kids is the bit I'm struggling with. If parents don't see a problem with letting their offspring get rat-arsed, that's their perogative, and no-one elses business until and unless said kid(s) while rat-arsed do something that infringes upon the rights and rights and liberties of someone else, then you get them arrested for it, if you're that way inclined. Responsibility for, or the welfare of someone else's kids is not something I, as a member of the Shetland population either want, or am willing to accept.

 

The Police have the right, at their discretion to arrest anyone who in their opinion is in breach of a statute, how local plod puts that in to practice, only they can explain and justify. If they decide to haul in under 18's for being intoxicated and/or charge their parents/guardians with whatever they feel is appropriate that's their perogative, and I'll not be losing any sleep over whether they do or don't. I really don't see some blootered 14 year old slithering along walls at the Cross is any of my concern one way or the other.

 

I'm not going to say underage drinking isn't ingrained and accepted/tolerated in some spheres of Shetland society, but I think you're making a dangerous sweeping generlisation to state it is so across the whole of Shetland society. There's still a goodish portion within Shetland society who fervently oppose "the demon drink" wherever it may appear, and, I suspect, a considerably larger portion of society, who like me, who are simply disinterested/indifferent. They gave birth to them, let them bring them up or f**k them up as they see fit, and as long as they don't bother me, I'll not bother them, is the maxim of the majority of folk I choose to mix with.

 

Meanwhile, in Manchester.....http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-new-years-eve-pictures-10673770

Edited January 3, 2016 by Ghostrider

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

Apart from the fact little off topic underage drinking which is what we are discussing, not adult drinking legal drinking 18yrs and over.

The NHS would in a better position not dealing the health associated with drinking and smoking.

If you didn't drink and smoke you would have something more productive to do with your time.

 

Well aren't we a little ray of sunshine?  I had my first bottle of wine on Christmas Day (which, I hasten to add, I didn't drink the entire bottle on that day) after working for two months with only three days off (meaning I didn't take off Saturdays and Sundays).  Prior to that, I hadn't had any alcohol in around six months.  Oh, and when I have had the odd brandy or two, it's been to combat pain because the painkillers don't work and I seldom take them.

 

Have you stopped to think about the people addicted to painkillers?  Is that okay then, simply because they are from the NHS?  Have you stopped to think why people drink and smoke?

 

As a teenager I got regularly off my face.

 

Incidentally, it is NOT illegal for someone under 18 to drink all types of alcohol in all situations.  Unless the law has changed, a 14 year old can drink wine with a meal.  A 16 year old can drink cider with a meal.

 

And given that you're such an expert, exactly how are parents meant to control their offspring?  It's illegal to lock them in a bedroom.  It's illegal to hit them.  You shout at a child, they can scream abuse.

 

The Police have probably realised that underage drinking is just what others have pointed out, it's part of growing up.

 

You are totally exaggerating and provide no proof as to how you reach your conclusions.  You are making sweeping generalisations based on a handful of people who you have assumed to be underage drinking at the cross out of a population of how many?

 

Care to share if you have ever drank alcohol?

[tooney1]

Wotsit, can i ask if you are new to Shetland? There is a long tradition of drinking here, which is probably more lenient and perhaps visible because of a culture of social gatherings. It's not perceived to be a problem by the majority.

 

If teenagers are going to drink, which they inevitabley will, IMO it's best in a controlled and visible environment than ruling with an iron fist and denying them the right to socialise at all.

[Urabug]

Well I have little to add to the comments that have already been made except to say that I would rather see the young ones experiment with drink and not with drugs. 

Edited January 3, 2016 by Urabug

[wotsit]

The figures in this link demonstrate a problem rather than a rite of passage on Shetland with the amount of underage drinking.

 

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/newsbites/11395-underage-drinking

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

The figures in this link demonstrate a problem rather than a rite of passage on Shetland with the amount of underage drinking.

 

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/newsbites/11395-underage-drinking

 

You're not seriously suggesting that every single 13 and 15 year old answered honestly, are you?

 

So, do ya drink alcohol?  Or are you choosing to ignore my question?

[Doodle]

 

The figures in this link demonstrate a problem rather than a rite of passage on Shetland with the amount of underage drinking.

 

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/newsbites/11395-underage-drinking

 

 

You're not seriously suggesting that every single 13 and 15 year old answered honestly, are you?

 

So, do ya drink alcohol?  Or are you choosing to ignore my question?

I remember a survey asking about this when I was at school (roughly 20 years ago), we thought it was hilarious and I think almost everyone responded that we had taken drugs at least once, which was of course nonsense. Same for the drinking.

 

I'm not trying to say there's not a problem, but just trying to gently remind the people believing these surveys that they might not be completely accurate.

[Ghostrider]

^ Similar scenario when they asked us back in the late 70's. Only difference "drugs" hadn't hit the powers that be radar back then, so the questions were only about smoking and drinking. As best as I can recall about half the class declined to participate, and most of those who did gave total b/s answers too.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Ghostrider

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

 

The figures in this link demonstrate a problem rather than a rite of passage on Shetland with the amount of underage drinking.

 

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/newsbites/11395-underage-drinking

 

You're not seriously suggesting that every single 13 and 15 year old answered honestly, are you?

 

So, do ya drink alcohol?  Or are you choosing to ignore my question?

 

 

I forgot something:  were the surveys carried out before or after said teenagers had had their Alkaseltzers??

[whalsa]

In my mind the main issues facing children in Shetland now and in the near future are education and mental health (especially for teenagers) which are both in dire need of funding/better management. Drugs is also a bigger danger due to the uncontrolled and illicit nature of the trade. 

 

Combine poor mental health with drugs and/or excessive drinking THEN you have a problem. A few teenagers going on the piss at social events is not a major issue IMHO.

[juicy]

Sounds to me that wotsit had no mates growing up so never went out on the skite as a teenager!

I was out every weekend as teenager and am not a alky!

[hjasga]

The amusing thing about the survey wotsit linked - whether we believe the results or not - is that if you click through to the actual report, rather than the heavily abridged news article, you see fewer young people are drinking than in recent years. That runs in direct contradiction to the hyperbolic perception that underage drinking is somehow getting worse (it isn't).

 

Then the fact more parents are letting their children drink at home - which seems a positive step, giving them a supervised and safe environment to experiment rather than hiding out on the streets without any experienced body nearby - would suggest to me it probably isn't any more out in the open than it once was. You only need look at old Shetland Times photos of the Market Cross at New Year to know what a nonsense that suggestion is. 

Edited January 28, 2016 by hjasga