EU

[Redrobbie99]

Why are the SNP so loyal to the EU after they did everything in their power to ruin the independence referendum for the SNP ?

. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2560630/Now-Eurocrats-wade-Scottish-vote-Barroso-says-extremely-difficult-independent-Scotland-join-EU.html

Edited February 20, 2016 by Redrobbie99

[Redrobbie99]

The government is imposing crippling austerity on the country particularly  on the poor and sick yet can find yet more billions  for the EU .   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3237073/Cameron-Osborne-quietly-pay-1-7BILLION-bill-Brussels-dismisses-totally-unacceptable.html

Edited February 20, 2016 by Redrobbie99

[Guest tiodylb17]

EU is there safety net, always nice to have someone riding shotgun ! 

[Ghostrider]

Get out. The EU have either destroyed/done nothing to help save the industries we had when we went in, and have brought us nothing to replce them with we argubly couldn't have achieved just fine without them.

 

Yeah, there may be rougher blips as we go through the transition of leaving, but once the dust settles we'll be in no worse a place than we re right now, and should be in a much better one. Its no different than the rougher blips we went through going in, nothing got any better than it was before we went in, things just got done that bit differently, that's all, and now being in is dragging us down.

 

The EEC/EU was aphilosophy that was worthy of examination, and we've gone as far as try it out for over 40 years. Its never really done what it said on the tin, and by all apperances things can only worsen, not better, so quit throwing good money after bad and try something else.

 

The original conception of the EEC maybe worked okayishly, and maybe it could have continued to work okayishly if it had stayed that way, but what it is now is heading for an implosion. Common sense and a quick glance at a world map soon lets you know large land masses under common control only work tolerably in practice when their greatest extent is east/west, not north/south. eg. The Yanks, Canada, Russia etc. The EU stretches from the Arctic Circle to the Med, and trying to apply the same set of rules to the Swedes, Greeks and Germans, or the Spanish, us and the Finns etc, given the vast differences between those nations, is never going to work. A small group of nations in similar latitudes probably could have worked, say, France, Germany, Belgium, Holland and maybe us an Ireland etc, but with what they have it can't, and all thats been happening these last twenty years is that they've been trying to stop what they have from falling apart, and now is the time to quit even that as its failed too in the end.

 

Once a whole starts becoming unstable, the usual form is that the periphieries detach first as they have the weakest connection to the core. Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Sweden and Finland are peripheries due to their locations at the northern and southern ends, us and Ireland are peripheries due to being island nations. Greece has all but committed suicide by opting to stay in, Spain isn't exctly doing sh*t hot with staying either, things aren't exactly a bed of roses in Merkel's "Motherland" or some of her buffer satellite nations, the writing is on the wall, time we were gone while we're still able to exit on our terms and survive, so as not end up in the same hole as Greece.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Ghostrider

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

The collapse of the E.U. has already begun, all across Europe people are flocking to the anti E.U parties, the most recent and extreme of those being PERGIDA which is worrying.

The E.U. leaders brought this on themselves due to the undemocratic nature of the commission and the extravagant Champagne lifestyles they all enjoy.

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

Lets get a Shetland Poll going , it is apparent there will be a certain amount of Strategic voting as Scottish Nationalist will hope to trigger a second Scottish election.

Folk with solid socialist principles will be voting as David Cameron and the Royal Family suggest, strange times indeed......

 

everybody has their view ....?

[Capeesh]

It doesn't look like the EU member states give a toss if we stay or leave if David Cameron's "negotiations" are anything to go by.

I wonder why that is?

Edited February 21, 2016 by Capeesh

[Redrobbie99]

Nicola Sturgeon has announced a campaign to get the English to vote to stay in the EU. Yet she has previously stated that if England ''rips'' Scotland out of the EU this would trigger the new independence referendum  she wants..So surely she should be campaigning for the English to vote to leave the EU  not to stay in.  http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14291463.Sturgeon_will_take_fight_to_stay_in_Europe_to_English_voters/

Edited February 21, 2016 by Redrobbie99

[Redrobbie99]

Boris wants to leave .http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12166968/eu-referendum-david-cameron-boris-johnson-live.html

[Ghostrider]

Nicola Sturgeon has announced a campaign to get the English to vote to stay in the EU. Yet she has previously stated that if England ''rips'' Scotland out of the EU this would trigger the new independence referendum  she wants..So surely she should be campaigning for the English to vote to leave the EU  not to stay in.  http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14291463.Sturgeon_will_take_fight_to_stay_in_Europe_to_English_voters/

 

That's a typical "top position" politician for you, less integrity than a snake oil salesman.

[hjasga]

 

Nicola Sturgeon has announced a campaign to get the English to vote to stay in the EU. Yet she has previously stated that if England ''rips'' Scotland out of the EU this would trigger the new independence referendum  she wants..So surely she should be campaigning for the English to vote to leave the EU  not to stay in.  http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14291463.Sturgeon_will_take_fight_to_stay_in_Europe_to_English_voters/

 

That's a typical "top position" politician for you, less integrity than a snake oil salesman.

 

How does that demonstrate a lack of integrity? She supports the EU and Scotland's continued membership of it. The only certain way to secure that is to vote to Remain on June 23rd. Anything after that is extremely unpredictable, and I expect being inside the UK and outside the EU is 'worst case' for many SNP supporters. 

[whalsa]

So an "out" vote by the UK would supposedly give the SNP a mandate for Independence.. presumably only if the overall vote in Scotland is "in"? So then following that logic, if Britain votes to stay "in" or if Britain votes "out" and the SNP try to use this for Scotland to leave and stay "in" but in either case Shetland votes "out" we would have a legitimate claim to having our own referendum about changing our status either with the UK or with an independent Scotland.

If Scotland should not be dragged out of the EU against it's will (if that is indeed the will of the public) then it follows that Shetland should not be forced to remain in if we want out. 

[Da Burra Shop]

So an "out" vote by the UK would supposedly give the SNP a mandate for Independence.. presumably only if the overall vote in Scotland is "in"? So then following that logic, if Britain votes to stay "in" or if Britain votes "out" and the SNP try to use this for Scotland to leave and stay "in" but in either case Shetland votes "out" we would have a legitimate claim to having our own referendum about changing our status either with the UK or with an independent Scotland.

 

If Scotland should not be dragged out of the EU against it's will (if that is indeed the will of the public) then it follows that Shetland should not be forced to remain in if we want out. 

You're forgetting that self determination only extends as far north as Caithness and could well move further south depending on how the good people of Wick vote.

[hjasga]

So an "out" vote by the UK would supposedly give the SNP a mandate for Independence.. presumably only if the overall vote in Scotland is "in"? So then following that logic, if Britain votes to stay "in" or if Britain votes "out" and the SNP try to use this for Scotland to leave and stay "in" but in either case Shetland votes "out" we would have a legitimate claim to having our own referendum about changing our status either with the UK or with an independent Scotland.

 

If Scotland should not be dragged out of the EU against it's will (if that is indeed the will of the public) then it follows that Shetland should not be forced to remain in if we want out. 

 

It wouldn't be a mandate for independence in and of itself, but I'd support the argument that it would be sufficient change of circumstance to justify another referendum on the matter. 

 

And in the circumstances you set out I would equally support a referendum for Shetland, albeit one in which I expect we would vote in differing ways. 

[Da Burra Shop]

"It wouldn't be a mandate for independence in and of itself, but I'd support the argument that it would be sufficient change of circumstance to justify another referendum on the matter. 

 

 

And in the circumstances you set out I would equally support a referendum for Shetland, albeit one in which I expect we would vote in differing ways."

 

At least you recognise the right to self determination extending further north than the Pentland firth, and that is all that wir Shetland is asking for. So why are the snp so afraid of the idea?