Alcohol "Overprovision"

[Colin]

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/13571-nhs-initiates-debate-about-isles-drink-problem

 

Looks like the nanny state (via NHS Shetland) is gearing up for another assault on our 'bad habits'.

 

I find it strange that NHS Shetland have done some "research" and have concluded that there is "overprovision of supermarkets on off-licences selling alcohol in Lerwick"

 

1st off, there are off-licences in other areas of Shetland which probably, on a pro-rata basis would return a higher level of "availability".

 

2nd. The said off-licences are commercial ventures which, presumably, turn off-sales into profit.  How can that be described as "overprovision".  I'm making a point not missing one..

 

3rd. They have provided a fairly exhaustive list of establishments where alcohol can be purchased but, unless I have misread it, appear to have forgotten Mareel.  I would also suggest that the 2 public halls should not have been included because they do not provide alcohol sales on a daily basis..  

Scratching for numbers to bolster their "research" perhaps?

 

4th. "Nearly a quarter of men and 15 per cent of women are categorised as binge drinkers, while more than 10 per cent of the adult population are defined as “problem” drinkers."

 

Who says so and, by what method have these figures been arrived at?

 

Is a "binge drinker" someone who takes 4 pints on a night out when they are only "officially allowed" to have 2? naughty naughty..

 

The report(?) also suggest that 10% of the adult population are alcoholics.  This is clearly rubbish..

 

5th. "The report suggests reducing the hours during which drink can be bought from supermarkets and convenience stores in Lerwick as one possible solution."

 

More rubbish and nowhere near a "solution"..  If I were an alcoholic and could only buy alcohol during certain hours of the day then, I would buy enough to see me through..   

It might also be worth noting that the only places (generally) alcoholics can buy enough to satisfy their needs are the supermarkets and occasional small shops who offer "knock down" prices.  Normal retail outlets such as public houses, restaurants etc charge much higher prices and are unlikely to attract or tolerate "problem drinkers"

 

6th. "A short section of the report summarises the views of users with an alcohol dependency. Some of them said restricting licensing hours so that sales were not permitted until the late afternoon or evening rather than from 10am could help them overcome their alcohol struggles."

 

Cherry Picking?  I wonder what the "others" said and, what percentage does the "some" represent?

 

7th. "Dr Webb’s report, published on 31 August, does recommend that the Shetland licensing board “moves to a clear and well thought out position where a smaller number of off-licences sell limited quantities of alcohol responsibly and at reasonable prices”."

 

I wasn't aware that NHS Shetland set the agenda for the Shetland Licensing Board and, I thought that the article said that NHS Shetland was not offering a "solution". ?  Other than to close off-licences, restrict sales to "limited quantities" and dictate pricing to those allowed(?) to continue trading...   Ho Hum...

 

8th. "“In particular, consideration should be given to eliminating the availability of low-cost alcohol through local supermarkets,” the report states. “This may require changes to the law, or it may require brave and challenging conditions to be developed by the licensing board.”"

 

In other words, "go pick a fight with Tesco et al."  Sound advice from the pages of the "How not to make friends and influence people" manual.

 

I could go on but, I'm getting bored by it.  Some people need to live in the real world where the "truth" is that Government applies taxes and duties to the sale of alcohol and, I would suspect, would be reluctant to lose any of the revenue generated by it's sale.  Someone, somewhere has probably calculated that the level of "collateral damage" (alcoholics) versus the amount of revenue is at an acceptable level.  They might "tinker about the edges" in percieved "hot spots" but, overall, I suspect that nothing much will change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[breeksy]

It's an odd thing to say that something is overprovided. If there isn't enough demand, people will supply less. If there isn't enough supply - well, the people they are trying to target will find other ways, such as making their own, potentially more deadly, alcohol, or drinking products that aren't meant to be consumed in that way, so any under supply would potentially be more harmful to the people they are targeting as well as affecting the majority of people that don't drink to excess.

[George.]

Amazing. Shetland News have stood up and stated, "An NHS Shetland report into the islands' relationship with drink has concluded that there is "overprovision" of supermarkets and off-licenses selling alcohol within Lerwick."

 

It's a great pity that they obviously didn't sit down and think about what they were reporting on. It is an even greater pity that NHS Shetland have written a report, supposedly about the islands, but they got no further than Lerwick, where there are approximately one third of the population of the islands. They will have counted the number of bars listed in the phone book, and no doubt written their report after gaining all their information while talking to a pensioner and an under-aged alcoholic that they found standing at the bus stop outside Tesco.

 

Rubbish news and a rubbish report. I hope that the Shetland News are proud of the report that they have spewed out to us, and I also hope that the employees of NHS Shetland that came out with this garbage are promptly sacked for puting forward a report about drinking alcohol in the islands that does not cover the islands, it covers a wee bit of Lerwick.

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

stv stated that NHS Shetland had suggested no booze sold in shops prior to 5pm - not true.  I spoke with NHS Shetland who have sent me a copy of the report (not yet read); however, NHS Shetland are required by the Scottish Government to report "just after the elections" to the Licensing Board, along with licensees and the public.  So they doing what the Gov. ask them to do.

 

As for speaking to a pensioner at a bus stop, George, some of the research was based upon what alcoholics in Aberdeen had stated.

[George.]

As for speaking to a pensioner at a bus stop, George, some of the research was based upon what alcoholics in Aberdeen had stated.

 

Even worse than I first thought, Cranky. The title of the report implies that it covers the Shetland Islands but NHS Shetland have been too idle to go out of Lerwick to collect their info and, as you imply, the information that they couldn't be bothered collecting is based on information gained from Aberdeen.

 

Ignorant, irrelevant and idle come to mind. Aren't the NHS wonderful.

 

Time for a carry-out, better get to the shop before the control merchants, better known as "The NHS with the big boots on.", get there and close it down.

[Urabug]

Next it will be tobacco,junk foods,and anything and everything they can think up!

 

We are all educated with the dangers of alcohol.

 

It is a personal choice surely when and if to drink .

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

 

As for speaking to a pensioner at a bus stop, George, some of the research was based upon what alcoholics in Aberdeen had stated.

 

Even worse than I first thought, Cranky. The title of the report implies that it covers the Shetland Islands but NHS Shetland have been too idle to go out of Lerwick to collect their info and, as you imply, the information that they couldn't be bothered collecting is based on information gained from Aberdeen.

 

Ignorant, irrelevant and idle come to mind. Aren't the NHS wonderful.

 

Time for a carry-out, better get to the shop before the control merchants, better known as "The NHS with the big boots on.", get there and close it down.

 

 

I'm gonna defend the NHS here.  It's not uncommon to refer to research done by others elsewhere in the UK.  Plus, the person I spoke to was very helpful and explained, as I outlined above, that they are doing what is requested of them by the Scottish Government.  So if anyone is the control merchants, it's the Government.  When I mentioned self responsibility, she mentioned that that was something that indeed the Aberdeen alcoholics had commented upon too, admitting that there had to be self responsibility.

 

The NHS member of staff phoned back promptly, was polite, listened, and enquired also as to how the NHS could help me and as a result, I found out about an initiative I didn't even know existed which I'm going to take them up on and I'm hopeful it will prove to be beneficial.  

[Wheelsup]

I think some of the people with a problem are unable to ration it. I.e they drink it almost straight away. You will see these waiting for the drinks shops to open to get their Gill of vodka or bottle of cheap cider to set them on their feet for the day. I guess if they reduce the hours then people will have to wait longer for a top up and be in danger of sobering up/getting a hang over. However any kind of prohibition will encourage people to find alternative supplies. Imagine the queues forming at 5pm

[George.]

I've always enjoyed a couple of pints of home brew, think that I'll get it going again. Anybody fancies a pint then chap on the door - unless, of course, you abuse the common man under the name of NHS Shetland.

[Colin]

some of the research was based upon what alcoholics in Aberdeen had stated.

If this is true then, by default, the report presented to the Licensing Board is not relevant to Shetland and should be binned.

 

I would have expected that somebody charged with providing a report to, at least, do a little of their own research.  Doing a "Cut & Paste" from somebody else's work is indefensible, provides misleading information and, is just not good enough.

 

Now I see that NHS Shetland are trying to defend themselves.  Going to be interesting as a bunch of people who appear to be largely disconnected from reality attempt to cover their arses..

[Frances144]

One sniff of the Clumly Bass should sort out all alcohol over-requirements, needs, addictions, indulgences.

 

Tea-total now.

 

Boick.

[Urabug]

One has to remember that drugs (unless prescribed by a doctor) are illegal but appear to be readily available for those who chose to buy them and I doubt if the the suppliers of these drugs work to any time of day rules.

 

So does anyone really think that delaying the sale of legal alcohol by a few hours will make any difference to those who desperately want it?

 

This is another one of these bright ideas that will only impede on all the early shoppers whether they have an alcohol problem or not and for some will be very inconvenient

 

How would the pick up at Tesco operate say for someone making an early trip to the Isles !.

[MuckleJoannie]

I mind a friend of mine who had a building business telling me he was working out in the country with a member of staff who was more than partial to a drink. My friend told his worker the reason he had taken him to work there was because there were no licensed premises for miles so he wouldn't have to worry about him getting hold of drink.

 

"Don't you believe it" was the response. The worker walked off and a few minute later came back with a bag of red tins.

[wotsit]

That will mess up Tesco.com deliveries, as they won't be able to deliver drink  before 5pm.

If a lot of people order drink there will be no delivery slots available for normal shopper who just wants their normal shopping.

[mogling]

All the Pensioners / Disabled Shoppers Bus runs are in a morning,

so no alcohol sales till 5pm would mean that all those/us people

would be unable to purchase any alcohol at all,

from either supermarkets or local shops.

 

Our local shop does home delivery but has a policy

of not delivering alcohol.

 

 

Prohibition didn't work in the States, and putting prices

up to exorbitant rates does't work - like in Norway,

 it just increases sales of illegal stills.

 

I remember hearing tales of Faroe years ago, where 

there were no alcohol off-sales available, yet folk

said they had never seen so many intoxicated people

staggering about the streets.

 

 

People desperate for drink will find it one way or another,

regardless of the time of day, and find the money to pay for it

by whatever means possible.