Sweetner

[humptygrumpty]

So there's to be no pay rises for 5 years then ? Oh well I'll be expecting my coucil tax to remain static for 5 years too , Which would be a bonus as we pay far far too much as it is !!!!!!!!!!!

[NewMagnie]

Really? What do you think would be a fair level of council tax for the relatively generous level of services you recieve? What you pay for and what you get in Shetland looks like an outrageous bargain compared to other places I've lived in scotland.

[humptygrumpty]

Well magnie when we out in the sticks are paying the same as some houses in Lerwick when we dont have street lighting , Public sewers , pavements , close amenities ect it does seem like a lot. And the increases seem to be larger than on the mainland.

[NewMagnie]

Hmmmm... I'd have to agree that you have a point there.

[Ghostrider]

The system of charging Council Tax is fundamentally flawed as regards fairness IMHO. The old Rates had both positives and serious flaws, so did the Community Charge that followed it, but the Council Tax is no better than either one in it's own way. Why, when both Rates and Community Charge had many vocal critics, the Council Tax is meekly accepted in silence I have never understood. However, that subject belongs to another thread, and probably another section of the forum, so, I'm shutting up and vanishing already.....

[BigMouth]

Well magnie when we out in the sticks are paying the same as some houses in Lerwick when we dont have street lighting , Public sewers , pavements , close amenities ect it does seem like a lot. And the increases seem to be larger than on the mainland.

 

In Sussex the villages pay a parish precept. This is a sum of money extra that allows for services to be delivered outside of the main population centres. I believe that the furthest villages paid £9 per month extra. Well, the rubbish truck has further to drive, as does the library truck and all the other services and social service staff that go out to the country.

[Wheesht]

IMHO if the leadership qualities publically displayed by the SIC top two tiers, and by that I mean the elected members and the highest level of hired staff, are qualities mirrored in their leadership qualities within the organisation, Shetland is damn lucky to have a council workforce that functions in any meaningful way at all.

 

Up to a point - but I wouldn't like to generalise, the SIC has some talented managers and some hopeless front line workers.

 

That is correct. The major difference between the public and private sector is that the public sector has lost the ability to do anythong about anyone who simply can not or will not do the job they were employed to do.

 

That leads to poor perceptions amongst the general public and vastly more people than deserve get tarred with the same brush.

[Wheesht]

The system of charging Council Tax is fundamentally flawed as regards fairness IMHO. The old Rates had both positives and serious flaws, so did the Community Charge that followed it, but the Council Tax is no better than either one in it's own way. Why, when both Rates and Community Charge had many vocal critics, the Council Tax is meekly accepted in silence I have never understood. However, that subject belongs to another thread, and probably another section of the forum, so, I'm shutting up and vanishing already.....

 

A very good point. A tax where all pay and is means tested is the fairest system. The present system allows working adults who reside with other family members to pay nothing and still benifit from the same services we all do.

[lec]

Was speaking to someone last night who works with people with learning disabilities. Under the single status, they stand to lose £3 an hour. Surely it's people at the sharp end who should be seeing the increases? Having seen what this person does day in day out, I can understand entirely why they are not happy at the prospect. Sadly, they are saying that if it goes through, they will be looking for something else. It's not about the money, it's about your job being valued, and taking that amount off an hour sends a pretty good message about how valued your work is compared to others.

[Marvin]

But also remember...they are not just losing £3 per hour...they are also going to have to work more hours AND they are collectively losing huge amounts on their pension and future earnings.

 

If they lose a pound then they agregate that loss until they retire (and beyond).

 

The UNISON newsletter uses an example whereby somebody on £16,000 per year loses 15% of pay through single status...the collective loss on salary alone after 30 years £210,000

 

Its nice to get some support from the forums...at this time everybody working for the Council would appreciate your support wherever and whenever you can.....

[Tito_Ortiz]

There really does not appear to be any rhyme nor reason to some of the thinking behind the pay awards - I do relief social care work with a child with learning disabilities and my hourly rate has increased by 20p/hour - I cannot see how somebody else working with people with disabilities should lose £3/hour.

 

Also, I have been told that certain managers do face pay cuts.

[JustMe]

Marvin wrote

The UNISON newsletter uses an example whereby somebody on £16,000 per year loses 15% of pay through single status...the collective loss on salary alone after 30 years £210,000

 

Not quite so simple as the 15% would have been taxed and subject to national insurance. At a quick calculation the loss in real terms is more like 8%. That said it is still wrong. Unless what an individual is paid is as a result of an error in the wages department or that individual moves to a lower graded job then pay cuts for existing employees is a recipe for industrial action.

 

Surely it would have been a more humane solution only to cut pay levels for new employees and perhaps those employed after pay cuts were first mooted.

[Marvin]

 

Also, I have been told that certain managers do face pay cuts.

 

Middle management are included in Single Status....

[Marvin]

 

Not quite so simple as the 15% would have been taxed and subject to national insurance. At a quick calculation the loss in real terms is more like 8%. That said it is still wrong. Unless what an individual is paid is as a result of an error in the wages department or that individual moves to a lower graded job then pay cuts for existing employees is a recipe for industrial action.

 

Thanks for your comments JustMe, they are appreciated.

 

I'm crap at maths but have you taken in to consideration that the 3% annual cost of living increase would be calculated on an annual basis at a reduced level which means an accumulated loss?

 

There also needs to a calculation based on the extra 8% loss regarding having to work 3 extra hours every week. I'm 33 and this works out at 2.5 years extra work.

[peeriebryan]

SIC pay deal splits staff

 

( From www.shetland-news.co.uk )