Lerwick Up Helly Aa

[Scorrie]

 

 

 

......What most people just do not grasp is that there is discrimination, and there is unfair discrimination. The law defines precisely what is deemed acceptable. Lerwick UHA ticks all the boxes.

 

 

Legally correct.

 

But we all know there's a massive chasm between what is law and what is perceived to be right by the majority.

 

And the negative publicity is only going to build up......

[Rasmie]

The status of a squad would make it very unlikely to be pinned down as an entity. basically its a score of mates going around a dozen private parties.

 

However, This is the 21st Century and a lot of last century's  norms are  having to alter. I think its dangerous in the long term not to simply open the door. Whereas currently the Hostesses appear not to want change, the hostesses themselves will change in 10 or 20 years.

[DetectorMan]

Lerwick Up Helly Aa - sexist or traditional?

M'mmm, perhaps I should doll myself up and come in drag, "viking style". That should make the horns of the squads helmets curl a bit!!

 

Anyone else up for it?

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

The status of a squad would make it very unlikely to be pinned down as an entity. basically its a score of mates going around a dozen private parties.

 

However, This is the 21st Century and a lot of last century's  norms are  having to alter. I think its dangerous in the long term not to simply open the door. Whereas currently the Hostesses appear not to want change, the hostesses themselves will change in 10 or 20 years.

 

Is it not the case that there are hosts as well as hostesses at the moment?  Weird how police woman, waitress, actress, etc., have being replaced in language with gender neutral or the male (waiter, actor) being adopted as applying to all, yet the female pronoun appears to have been adopted for UHA.  Nevertheless, the fact that both genders (not aware of anyone identifying as gender fluid or non-CIS male/female are currently hosts/hostesses) are in these roles, it doesn't negate the fact that women are still absent from the squads.

 

As for the question, something can be traditional and still be sexist.

[Rasmie]

Detector-man , it's a been done afore, again and again

[Equality Street]

Fascinating reading the 'debate' on Facebook. Never ceases to amaze me how the professionally shrill and the habitually offended get so outraged online, but in real life contribute nothing to the fun of Up Helly Aa. It's not a great leap to suggest that, in some cases, being highly vocal about 'exclusion' is symptomatic of a reluctance to actually embrace the festival due to their own misanthropy, but that's just a personal observation.

 

Perhaps one of the perils of the gentrification of Up Helly Aa  (an absolute spree and p1ss up that's been elevated to the status of High Culture by some commentators), is that the modern world must impose it's morals upon it. Maybe we should also castigate those at Hayfield for allowing a festival that tacitly supports alcoholism to leech into our schools? Christ, the Jarl is even promoting cider - the favoured drink of the adolescent in the park . Could he be any more of a corrupting influence on our little darlings?

 

More seriously, , having been in the company of 2 stewardesses as this debate unfolded,  I can assure you that the overwhelming irk is not their exclusion from squads. Their gripe is from the utterly patronizing tirades coming from the usual suspects as if the women and girls involved in Lerwick Up Helly Aa were so co-towed and mouthless that it had never occurred to them to rise up and protest, until shown the way by the enlightened few. 

 

If there is sufficient appetite for women to join the ranks it will happen, but most of us actually involved in the festival - guizers and guests alike are quite happy the way it is.

[tirvaluk]

It shouldn't matter how many. If one female wants to go out in a squad why shouldn't she. 

[Ghostrider]

^ I know nothing about any F/B debate, never seen it. But you're wholly and completely missing the point.

 

Of course those currently involved are happy with the present arrangement, they'd be far less likely to be taking an active part if they weren't, and its not particularly likely that as long as the current attitude within the event continues that any change will come from within.

 

It wasn't a desire from within that killed tarbarrelling and turned it in to something unrecognisable, it was everyone else, who simply weren't prepared to tolerate it going on in their midst any longer that did that. Its folk on the outside who would like to participate in the parts of the event they can't due to the present set up, and folk that disapprove of an event that practices such things in the street, town or whatever where they live, that are the most likely to drive any change forward. Those already in went in knowing full well what the set up was, we can only presume it was to their liking, or they'd never have touched it with a barge pole in the first place. It would be rather surprising if such people didn't support the status quo.

 

The further this thread goes, the more it suggests that the LK UHA has, at least in part, an insular and introspective perspective of itself, "its our party, and we'll run it how we like". Not quite so i'm afraid. What goes on in the halls etc is one thing, thats between the venue's management and UHA, but the roads, public parks etc are a wholly different matter, they, and what goes on in them is everybody's business, and if an adequate number of "the rest" decide to stand up and be counted that they disapprove of the practices being conducted on them, in this alleged deomcratic society in which we live, their will will (or at least should) take precedence over other opinion(s).

 

"We axe for what we want" is fine and well, but UHA will only ever get what the wider society at large decides to let them have.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Ghostrider

[Scorrie]

'Equality Street'

 

Oh, the absolute irony

 

[Equality Street]

It shouldn't matter how many. If one female wants to go out in a squad why shouldn't she. 

 

It does absolutely matter how many. If the those involved, men and women alike, are happy with the current setup why should it change to suit one person, or a small minority? As I said, if enough women wanted to join it would happen.

 

 

[Equality Street]

'Equality Street'

 

Oh, the absolute irony

 

 

 

 

That's rather the point...

[Equality Street]

UHA will only ever get what the wider society at large decides to let them have.

 

I suspect the wider society doesn't really give a flying torch as to how a boozy spree on a small island in the middle of the North Sea is conducted.

 

Spectators may have their axes to grind (or not!), but it's the men and women involved (including guests) that choose, through their continued endorsement of the event, how it is run.

 

While tickets to the halls are in high demand and the limited places in squads are always filled, those keen to impose their own preferences and opinions on attendees,  who are perfectly happy with the status quo,  will have some way to go before the change they sanctimoniously espouse is effected. 

[George.]

I suspect the wider society doesn't really give a flying torch as to how a boozy spree on a small island in the middle of the North Sea is conducted.

 

 

Any particular island, or is it just pot luck?

[Ghostrider]

 

UHA will only ever get what the wider society at large decides to let them have.

 

I suspect the wider society doesn't really give a flying torch as to how a boozy spree on a small island in the middle of the North Sea is conducted.

 

Spectators may have their axes to grind (or not!), but it's the men and women involved (including guests) that choose, through their continued endorsement of the event, how it is run.

 

While tickets to the halls are in high demand and the limited places in squads are always filled, those keen to impose their own preferences and opinions on attendees,  who are perfectly happy with the status quo,  will have some way to go before the change they sanctimoniously espouse is effected. 

 

 

It was the wider society of the small island in the middle of the sea I was referring to.

 

The men and women involved get to run it as they see fit, only as long as the wider society of the little island in the middle of the sea let them, which is something a little different.

 

I don't know whether its naivety, denial or ignorance, but rather than there being "some way to go", all it would take is just one person to take one of at least two entirely seperate simple and easily done courses of action, and the LK UHA in its present form is very much in jeopardy.

 

I respect the fact the event means a significant amount to a significant throng of folk, so I'm not about to give up what they are to all in sundry on here and kick off a clusterf*ck. But if i can see them so easily, others may have, or could too, and all it would take is one of them with adequate motivation to follow through with it, which i don't have, and nothing about UHA will ever be the same again.

[Equality Street]

All it would take is just one person to take one of at least two entirely seperate simple and easily done courses of action, and the LK UHA in its present form is very much in jeopardy....

 

...I respect the fact the event means a significant amount to a significant throng of folk, so I'm not about to give up what they are...

 

 

Oh merciful Ghostrider, thank you for restraining your mighty wisdom for the good of the festive throng!  We know that, at any time, you could unleash your powers and "nothing about UHA will ever be the same again." Praise be to Ghostrider! Your place in Valhalla is surely assured.