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Lerwick Up Helly Aa


peeriebryan
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Female squad members in Lerwick Up Helly Aa (2022 poll)  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. In principle, should women be allowed to participate in Lerwick Up Helly-Aa as squad members?

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      15
  2. 2. Is logistics (already high numbers of guizers, waiting lists for squads etc) a valid reason not to allow women to participate in Lerwick Up Helly-Aa as squad members?

    • Yes
      15
    • No
      11
  3. 3. The current ‘male only’ squad member demographic of Lerwick Up Helly-Aa is….

    • Sexist
      8
    • Traditional
      18


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@cleaner

 

Apologies not necessary

 

"Well the female & beardless bit has already happened at SMUHA as I'm sure we all know & the sky didn't fall down, the world didn't stop turning & all the masculinity of the men involved in the event didn't crumble, as far as I hear! I believe a good time was had by all as usual."

 

I know this.  That is why I referred to it as UHA, which as far as I know, means the lerwick event.

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"The words sexist & racist are legitimate words with meanings & not just empty, insulting slang. It may be an uncomfortable message but it needs to be addressed."

 

I have to disagree somewhat.  The "sexist" and "racist" cards are played far to easily by some in order to gain the "moral high ground" and put the "offending" (?) party at a disadvantage.  Just like the way I tossed "racist" into the mix.  Shake the tree to see what falls out..

 

Is UHA "sexist" ?  I don't think so. " It is what it is", and "traditionally" women have done all the real work in the background whilst the "boys" have a night out with their mates.

UHA, along with other Fire Festivals, are essentially, based on a "gang culture" and joining (?) one of the "gangs" is by invitation only and, if they don't want any women, they don't want any women.  That, you would hope, should be the end of it.

After all, there are women's squads outside of Lerwick that don't want any men involved.  Isn't that "sexist" as well or does it only work 1 way ?

 

The fact that other Fire Festivals allow female squads is really down to them "they are what they are" Although, afaik, only one of those allows a female Jarl.

"There may not be any other than white faces involved (I don't know) but if it ever came to be that someone were excluded on the basis of race that just wouldn't fly."

 

Totally agree with that but, there is a fine grey line between "excluded" and "invited" in so much as, again afaik, the whole squad has to agree to a new member being "invited" to join.  One objection = "exclusion".

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Well as far as sexism/racism is concerned ofcourse it would have to be proven that was the reason for exclusion. Unfortunately proving that may not always be easy but the onus is on the accuser, normally in this country anyway.

Yes people have been known to make accusations of sexism/racism & many other things falsely & sometimes with another agenda in mind. That doesn't mean that all accusations are unwarranted.

I don't personally think that a quota is the way to go with any UHA but I think if the idea of having female squad members was officially accepted then they would filter in over time naturally in the same way that squads do change gradually from retirements etc. As the Jarl squad obviously changes every year this could be the ideal opportunity to start bringing women into the event. Lead from the top as it were.

Certainly there has only been one female Jarl so far but I don't know if this is because it is "not allowed" in any of the other festivals. Would be interesting to have confirmation or not from someone involved in any of them.

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I would totally defend a squad's rights to invite in anyone the wish, i.e they should not have anyone forced on them.

 

However there should, in principal, be no reason for anyone being excluded because of gender. 

 

The Up Helly A' organisers' would need to address is i.e. that there is no such exclusion clause, because all it s doing is creating a cause which people will take up whether they have any interest in going out or not.

 

I suspect many of  complainers might not be as keen as they think, if they ever have to do the full stint. So many first-timers think they can just go home when they're tired. lol

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I totally agree with your first two paragraphs Wheelsup but I reckon any women interested in being in a squad have most likely been going to UHA, maybe for years already. I realise being a guest at one hall & performing at numerous halls through the night as a guizer or musician are different things but it is for the squad leaders to make it clear to all that falling by the wayside is not tolerated. Women do night shift jobs too so I'm sure they will cope! If they find being in a squad is not for them then they can give up their place to one of the many in the waiting list, no harm done.

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Personally I see no logical reason why women are not allowed in UHA squads. Having said that this sexist

is a little one sided. Those seeking equality fought for the right of girls to join the boy scouts.

They achieved their aim, however boys are not allowed to join the girl guides unless they identify as female.

Some girls it seems find the scouts more interesting, maybe boys might find the guides just as

interesting...

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The longer this debate goes on the more I'm becoming convinced that those shouting loudest for women to be guizers either have no real understanding of how UHA works, or are undertaking it as a personal point scoring exercise.

 

If any woman who really wants to be in a squad isn't in a position to know existing squad members well enough that she can effectively 'work on them' to get her in, she has no chance of getting in to that squad regardless whether she's female, male, or identifies as any one of the ever increasing list of pseudo-genders inbetween.

 

You have to have been 'one of the gang' elsewhere in life for a while too, before you're extended UHA 'privileges'. Whether that be as a relative, schoolmate, neighbour, workmate, whatever....

 

Just turning up at a participants meeting someplace and asking to take part won't work, as that's not how it works. You need to 'network' your way in to your place.....

Edited by Ghostrider
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^ Very true. But I'm persuaded that if any rule 'banning' anyone exists, going about getting it changed is going to have to come from the inside, not the outside, to have any real chance of success.

 

There has to be in to the thousands of women out there who have connections to the UHA fraternity in some form, you'd think if anyone was interested enough to want to become a guizer, it would be people from within that group, who are also the only women in a position to both directly pressurise or influence a rule change within that fraternity, and have any chance whatsoever of being accepted in to any squad as a guizer.

 

Its a closed circle, unless you're 'one of them', neither UHA Committee nor any guizer is going to give a damn what anyone else thinks, or whatever they may do.

 

If UHA does have a rule that contravenes Sexual Discrimination statute, I have no doubt they will amend that on paper, but in practice unless the push for female guizers comes from within the current UHA female fraternity, nothing those females outside the fraternity may say or do will get females in, and that has nothing to do with gender. Unless an individual knows who to sweet talk and do whatever is necessary to get backing from someone or somewhere within the fraternity, they have no chance of gaining admittance, regardless whether they be man woman or alien.

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  • 3 months later...
  • admin changed the title to Lerwick Up Helly Aa

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