mikeyboy Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Can you explain what leverage the Scottish government can use to get a larger block grant? The Scottish government figures show that the block grant will be reduced by 9.2% in real terms through the life of this parliament. The Fraser of Allander institute calculates that the Block grant has reduced by something like 5% since 2010/11 but that new borrowing powers will reduce this a bit.There was an interesting comment though that due to interest rates and rising prices etc that the actual buying power had dropped by 7.4% in this time. Is the Local government settlement being reduced in real terms? Edited February 1, 2018 by mikeyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Can you explain what leverage the Scottish government can use to get a larger block grant? The same as everyone in any negotiation. lobbying, representations, deputations, discussions, arguments, PR campaigns, deals.....These things only happen by plugging away relentlessly for extended periods, there is no quick fix. How many times have senior Scottish Government representatives gone to London to fight for a better deal, how many times have they dug their heels in and said 'no' to what was on the table. what work has Scottish MP's, especially the significant SNP contingent, put in at Westminster to secure improved funding. What kind of horse trading have that SNP contingent attempted to undertake with the Tories to make a deal. Surprise me with positive answers if you can, but my money is on 'never' to all of the above, as no Nat could possibly acknowledge a 'vile, nasty Tory'. An attitude better described as 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyboy Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 No i didn't think you could. No matter what tactics are used if the UK gov says that is what you are getting there is very little the Scottish government can do.The "Nats" obviously do acknowledge the Tories as they have formed the Scottisg government which obviously deals all the time with the UK gov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Is the Local government settlement being reduced in real terms? Readily and easily finding figures to prove that one way or the other isn't possible, but from memory I believe the SIC allocation has not only reduced in real terms, but at least before yesterday's 'top up' announcement, had probably also reduced in actual terms as well. I stand corrected if wrong, but even with all the two 'PR exercise' funding additions of recent weeks, the block grant still only stands at something like £84.5 Million, which strikes me as being pretty much ballpark for where it stuck for years, if not in to decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 No i didn't think you could. No matter what tactics are used if the UK gov says that is what you are getting there is very little the Scottish government can do.The "Nats" obviously do acknowledge the Tories as they have formed the Scottisg government which obviously deals all the time with the UK gov. The Scots Govt. is there to represent the Scottish people's best interests, allegedly. To try, and to be seen to try, even if you fail, is honourable and forgivable. To be seen to sit back and only accept the pittance offered, and then moan about the giver and how little it is, is contemptable, and unforgivable. We've seen nobody trying, so whether its possible or not cannot be said. Bluntly, they're riding the gravy train and failing to do the job they're hired to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyboy Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 The frame work that the block grant is based on. http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2016/02/3623/1 The Autumn budget anouncing the Block granthttps://sp-bpr-en-prod-cdnep.azureedge.net/published/2017/11/23/UK-Autumn-Budget-2017---impact-on-Scotland/SB%2017-81.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyboy Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Is the Local government settlement being reduced in real terms? Readily and easily finding figures to prove that one way or the other isn't possible, but from memory I believe the SIC allocation has not only reduced in real terms, but at least before yesterday's 'top up' announcement, had probably also reduced in actual terms as well. I stand corrected if wrong, but even with all the two 'PR exercise' funding additions of recent weeks, the block grant still only stands at something like £84.5 Million, which strikes me as being pretty much ballpark for where it stuck for years, if not in to decades. I couldn't find a direct comparison but to be honest I didn't look that hard. It is possible it hasn't been published yet.What you are saying may be true I don't know you haven't provided any evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyboy Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) No i didn't think you could. No matter what tactics are used if the UK gov says that is what you are getting there is very little the Scottish government can do.The "Nats" obviously do acknowledge the Tories as they have formed the Scottisg government which obviously deals all the time with the UK gov. The Scots Govt. is there to represent the Scottish people's best interests, allegedly. To try, and to be seen to try, even if you fail, is honourable and forgivable. To be seen to sit back and only accept the pittance offered, and then moan about the giver and how little it is, is contemptable, and unforgivable. We've seen nobody trying, so whether its possible or not cannot be said. Bluntly, they're riding the gravy train and failing to do the job they're hired to do. Again we only have your assertion that this is the case. Edited as realised I was coming a bit bolshie there which is not my intention.Just I think if you make a statement it has to be based on facts.If your opinion that is fine but opinions are there to be challenged.I hope I am coming over in the spirit of a debater rather than just being argumentative. Edited February 1, 2018 by mikeyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 No i didn't think you could. No matter what tactics are used if the UK gov says that is what you are getting there is very little the Scottish government can do.The "Nats" obviously do acknowledge the Tories as they have formed the Scottisg government which obviously deals all the time with the UK gov. The Scots Govt. is there to represent the Scottish people's best interests, allegedly. To try, and to be seen to try, even if you fail, is honourable and forgivable. To be seen to sit back and only accept the pittance offered, and then moan about the giver and how little it is, is contemptable, and unforgivable. We've seen nobody trying, so whether its possible or not cannot be said. Bluntly, they're riding the gravy train and failing to do the job they're hired to do. Again we only have your assertion that this is the case. Edited as realised I was coming a bit bolshie there which is not my intention.Just I think if you make a statement it has to be based on facts.If your opinion that is fine but opinions are there to be challenged.I hope I am coming over in the spirit of a debater rather than just being argumentative. There has nothing been reported in any media anywhere that I'm aware of, making claims that either the Scottish Government or Scottish MPs in Westminster have done anything other than sit back and wait to accept whatever pittance Westminster put their way. In the absence of any evidence suggesting otherwise, what other reasonable conclusion could anyone be expected to come to other than they've done nothing? Whatever the media choose to tell us is all we have to go by, and if either the Scottish Government or Scottish MPs in Westminster have been labouring away doing their best to secure a better settlement that we don't know about, then its their PR department that has failed and needs replacing. We can only judge on what we know, nothing else. On the other hand however there has been numerous reports of the Scottish Government blaming this, that and the other on the 'vile Tories' in Westminster and their 'austerity', to the point its arguably become an over-worked, over-used scape goat for things that can't be justified to be blamed on it. There's also the fact that SNP MP's could have been in a position in Westminster to gain a few favours to Scotland's advatage out of the Government, had they not chosen to dismiss the idea out of hand on principle. The Tories needed a coalition partner last June to have a stable base upon which to govern, the SNP with 35 seats and the third largest party in Westminster would have been a far more attractive coalition partner than either the LibDems with 12 seats, or their eventual coalition partner, the DUP with 10. The SNP however chose to pass over that opportunity to influence the government, chosing party politics over the greater good for Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Is the Local government settlement being reduced in real terms? From a Shetland Times article, 6th Dec. '16. Over the past six years, up to and including 2016/17, Scottish Government revenue and capital funding for councils fell by 8.4 per cent in real terms. http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2016/12/06/tough-times-ahead-councils-audit-comission-says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyboy Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Is the Local government settlement being reduced in real terms? From a Shetland Times article, 6th Dec. '16. Over the past six years, up to and including 2016/17, Scottish Government revenue and capital funding for councils fell by 8.4 per cent in real terms. http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2016/12/06/tough-times-ahead-councils-audit-comission-says Good to see you starting to provide some evidence.I found the SPICe report into the local government setttlement yesterday will see if I can find it again.This suggested a 5.6% drop last year but that the capital funding had gone up slightly.I would expect funding to go down slightly as the local government no longer pay for police and fire.But yes still a real term drop.Interestingly the funding for Shetland was 199% per person of what the Scottish average is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyboy Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 No i didn't think you could. No matter what tactics are used if the UK gov says that is what you are getting there is very little the Scottish government can do.The "Nats" obviously do acknowledge the Tories as they have formed the Scottisg government which obviously deals all the time with the UK gov. The Scots Govt. is there to represent the Scottish people's best interests, allegedly. To try, and to be seen to try, even if you fail, is honourable and forgivable. To be seen to sit back and only accept the pittance offered, and then moan about the giver and how little it is, is contemptable, and unforgivable. We've seen nobody trying, so whether its possible or not cannot be said. Bluntly, they're riding the gravy train and failing to do the job they're hired to do. Again we only have your assertion that this is the case. Edited as realised I was coming a bit bolshie there which is not my intention.Just I think if you make a statement it has to be based on facts.If your opinion that is fine but opinions are there to be challenged.I hope I am coming over in the spirit of a debater rather than just being argumentative. There has nothing been reported in any media anywhere that I'm aware of, making claims that either the Scottish Government or Scottish MPs in Westminster have done anything other than sit back and wait to accept whatever pittance Westminster put their way. In the absence of any evidence suggesting otherwise, what other reasonable conclusion could anyone be expected to come to other than they've done nothing? Whatever the media choose to tell us is all we have to go by, and if either the Scottish Government or Scottish MPs in Westminster have been labouring away doing their best to secure a better settlement that we don't know about, then its their PR department that has failed and needs replacing. We can only judge on what we know, nothing else. On the other hand however there has been numerous reports of the Scottish Government blaming this, that and the other on the 'vile Tories' in Westminster and their 'austerity', to the point its arguably become an over-worked, over-used scape goat for things that can't be justified to be blamed on it. There's also the fact that SNP MP's could have been in a position in Westminster to gain a few favours to Scotland's advatage out of the Government, had they not chosen to dismiss the idea out of hand on principle. The Tories needed a coalition partner last June to have a stable base upon which to govern, the SNP with 35 seats and the third largest party in Westminster would have been a far more attractive coalition partner than either the LibDems with 12 seats, or their eventual coalition partner, the DUP with 10. The SNP however chose to pass over that opportunity to influence the government, chosing party politics over the greater good for Scotland. That is your opinion. My opinion is that the Scottish government does not have much to push back on against Westminster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D'oh Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 I've been to the Faroes this Summer and these undersea tunnels are quite impressive. There's a new one in the pipeline (huh) between Streymoy and Sandoy. They have no oil, btw. Just teasing. whalsa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashBox Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 I suppose one option is to take the existing fleet, rip out the engines and convert to battery electric propulsion. There's an energy cost saving of around 80% and it keeps the ferrymen (and women) in employment. Just don't mention the manpower costs. https://electrek.co/2018/02/03/all-electric-ferry-cuts-emission-cost/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) No i didn't think you could. No matter what tactics are used if the UK gov says that is what you are getting there is very little the Scottish government can do.The "Nats" obviously do acknowledge the Tories as they have formed the Scottisg government which obviously deals all the time with the UK gov. The Scots Govt. is there to represent the Scottish people's best interests, allegedly. To try, and to be seen to try, even if you fail, is honourable and forgivable. To be seen to sit back and only accept the pittance offered, and then moan about the giver and how little it is, is contemptable, and unforgivable. We've seen nobody trying, so whether its possible or not cannot be said. Bluntly, they're riding the gravy train and failing to do the job they're hired to do. Again we only have your assertion that this is the case. Edited as realised I was coming a bit bolshie there which is not my intention.Just I think if you make a statement it has to be based on facts.If your opinion that is fine but opinions are there to be challenged.I hope I am coming over in the spirit of a debater rather than just being argumentative. There has nothing been reported in any media anywhere that I'm aware of, making claims that either the Scottish Government or Scottish MPs in Westminster have done anything other than sit back and wait to accept whatever pittance Westminster put their way. In the absence of any evidence suggesting otherwise, what other reasonable conclusion could anyone be expected to come to other than they've done nothing? Whatever the media choose to tell us is all we have to go by, and if either the Scottish Government or Scottish MPs in Westminster have been labouring away doing their best to secure a better settlement that we don't know about, then its their PR department that has failed and needs replacing. We can only judge on what we know, nothing else. On the other hand however there has been numerous reports of the Scottish Government blaming this, that and the other on the 'vile Tories' in Westminster and their 'austerity', to the point its arguably become an over-worked, over-used scape goat for things that can't be justified to be blamed on it. There's also the fact that SNP MP's could have been in a position in Westminster to gain a few favours to Scotland's advatage out of the Government, had they not chosen to dismiss the idea out of hand on principle. The Tories needed a coalition partner last June to have a stable base upon which to govern, the SNP with 35 seats and the third largest party in Westminster would have been a far more attractive coalition partner than either the LibDems with 12 seats, or their eventual coalition partner, the DUP with 10. The SNP however chose to pass over that opportunity to influence the government, chosing party politics over the greater good for Scotland. That is your opinion. My opinion is that the Scottish government does not have much to push back on against Westminster. If you're right, and you may very well be. Then that just comes back to my original point, that they're not up to the job they've been hired to do. If they don't have the leverage to play with the big boys and girls, then they need to either get some ASAP, or quit so someone else can try. Politics is all about using whatever you have to get what you want, and like everything else in life, if you have nothing to use, and aren't getting what you want, you're a dead duck. Edited February 4, 2018 by Ghostrider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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