Road and driveway construction

[peeriebryan]

*mod edit - this thread was split from https://www.shetlink.com/index.php?/topic/6746-community-council-elections *
 

> grants toward the new Hoswick to Stove cycle path

Oh good, some meat and potato content, excellent to see. (How much did that cost out of interest ?)

Here's an article about the opening of the path http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2018/05/19/watch-scooters-cyclists-and-walkers-galore-for-official-footpath-opening

[peeriebryan]

> the £53,000 project.

 

I have a vague memory somewhere of people commenting about how expensive that appeared for some tarmac.

It wasn't cheap, but there's a bit more to it than just spreading tar through someone's field

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

_
> there's a bit more to it than just spreading tar through someone's field

What else is needed ?
 

[George.]

> there's a bit more to it than just spreading tar through someone's field

 

What else is needed ?

 

Hardcore.

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

> Hardcore.

FX [ Looks around at an island made entirely out of hardcore, as if the moon was made of cheese, with it littering the countryside in practically every field. ]

Isn't stone about £35 a ton delivered ?

 

[peeriebryan]

 

> there's a bit more to it than just spreading tar through someone's field

 

What else is needed ?

 

Hardcore.

 

 

Well... surveys, legal costs, roads and planning paperwork, earthworks, subgrades, tar, fencing and drainage too.

 

Cycle / Walk Path by Richard Lewis, on Flickr

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

> Well... surveys, legal costs, roads and planning paperwork, earthworks, subgrades, tar, fencing and drainage too.
 

Great picture by the way, very informative.

So.. its a cycle track next to an existing road then..

I wouldn't have thought there would be much to survey looking at the site.

 

Is there much in the way of legal costs ?

I would have spent a bit more on earthworks and had to made without that dip in it.


A tiny bit of road and planning paperwork perhaps..

Drainage looks to be, as simple and as cheap as it gets.

Fencing is also, cheap looking. (One could have reused the old fencing if one wanted to save cash..)


It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the costs, as I'm used to seeing folk build roads with nothing more than a bulldozer and a few hours of time.


I'm reminded of an organisation I know that wanted to build a greenhouse, got a grant of some £85,000 and managed to get as far as building the base for a greenhouse, and that was it !

They never wanted to talk about the finer points of their budgetting.

Meanwhile another group managed a whole greenhouse for something like £12,000, similar size.


As at some point in the future I may well find myself needing to build a long driveway, it interests me to understand the breakdown in costs associated with that, and how I might save X or Y by doing various parts of the work myself.  Obviously some parts will require paying for, such as planning requirements.

Related link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2836835/Businessman-hailed-hero-opening-private-toll-road-set-close-claims-won-t-make-penny-council-finds-660-000-fund-repairs-end-road-closure.html

> forced him to spend £25,000 gaining retrospective planning permission.

An awful lot of money just to get planning permission for a road !

To they charge by the square metre ?



 

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

I wonder how much it would cost for a car park ?

Lets say, a very simple one, no tarmac enough room for say, two dozen cars, a way in, a way out.

Ground would probably need a little levelling, some extra lose small stones for the surface layer, perhaps a simple drainage ditch around the outside, and some big heavy stones to stop folk driving into the ditches by accident.

I  was thinking less than £1,000 offhand, so, more than that ?
 

[JohanofNess]

I wonder how much it would cost for a car park ?

 

Lets say, a very simple one, no tarmac enough room for say, two dozen cars, a way in, a way out.

 

Ground would probably need a little levelling, some extra lose small stones for the surface layer, perhaps a simple drainage ditch around the outside, and some big heavy stones to stop folk driving into the ditches by accident.

 

I  was thinking less than £1,000 offhand, so, more than that ?

 

 

How did you arrive at less than £1000, if you reckon stone delivered is £35 a tonne and you'll need at least 600 tonnes of the stuff you're at £21k before you even put the digger bucket in the ground.

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

I thought one would need more like 60 tonnes ?

10 metre x 50 metre (Is that enough for two dozen cars ?), depth to 75mm, is 37.5 cubic metres, stone is what, 1.5 tonne per cubic metre, so 37.5 * 1.5 = 56.25 tonnes ?


> How did you arrive at less than £1000

When I was recently landscaping my garden I noticed the ground had an awful lot of small stones in it, such that if the rest of the islands are similar, you might get away with only needing half the amount of extra stone added.
 

[JohanofNess]

I thought one would need more like 60 tonnes ?

 

10 metre x 50 metre (Is that enough for two dozen cars ?), depth to 75mm, is 37.5 cubic metres, stone is what, 1.5 tonne per cubic metre, so 37.5 * 1.5 = 56.25 tonnes ?

 

 

> How did you arrive at less than £1000

 

When I was recently landscaping my garden I noticed the ground had an awful lot of small stones in it, such that if the rest of the islands are similar, you might get away with only needing half the amount of extra stone added.

 

 

Your car park would need to be around 5-600m2 to allow 2 dozen cars to park and manoeuvre in and out of spaces. The depth of stone would be more advisable at 2-300mm or it won't last. Stone is about 2.3tonne per m3.

 

The substrate in Shetland may have a lot of loose stone or even a lot of rock but the soil can also be quite peaty which isn't good for building on top of. You should really excavate off the topsoil and lay the stone in it's place. I've yet to see anyone have a good outcome dumping a heap of stone on top of unexcavated soil.

 

That's all for a impromptu car park for a cycle lane like Bryan was describing you need to do the job properly which means no shortcuts on excavation, geotextiles,stone depth, bitmac or drainage.

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

> The depth of stone would be more advisable at 2-300mm or it won't last. Stone is about 2.3tonne per m3.

 

Thank you for the information.

 

> I've yet to see anyone have a good outcome dumping a heap of stone on top of unexcavated soil.
 

I notice spots like that all over the place here.

I'll take some pictures next time we are parked on one.
 

I remember in Kent, some years ago, most of the carparks was former WWII bomb damage sites where buildings once stood, and they did nothing more than bulldozer them flat and we parked on them for decades with barely much in the way of repairs to the surface.
 

[JohanofNess]

> The depth of stone would be more advisable at 2-300mm or it won't last. Stone is about 2.3tonne per m3.

 

Thank you for the information.

 

 

> I've yet to see anyone have a good outcome dumping a heap of stone on top of unexcavated soil.

 

I notice spots like that all over the place here.

I'll take some pictures next time we are parked on one.

 

I remember in Kent, some years ago, most of the carparks was former WWII bomb damage sites where buildings once stood, and they did nothing more than bulldozer them flat and we parked on them for decades with barely much in the way of repairs to the surface.

 

 

No need for the photos Nigel, I'm from Shetland and also work in civil engineering, I know what good and bad hardstandings look like.

 

As for the demolished building car parks of Kent without actually seeing them it doesn't really surprise me they are firm since you've got hundreds of tonnes of hard material smashed and rolled out to make a hard base.

 

None of this makes cycle lanes any cheaper though.