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Brexit (merged threads)


Urabug
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Michel Barnier the french chief negotiator has said "thats the deal take it or leave it "is that not being bullied and controlled by a foreign country.

 

No. That's the EU making the position clear after protracted negotiations.

 

Let our businessmen dispatch there own salesmen /women throughout the world and sell what they manufacture, surely they know more about the products than the politicians.

 

Our own businesses can negotiate and set up trade arrangements surely we do not require" toffee nosed " so called politicians to do it for us.

 

There's a difference between businesses doing their business, and creating the international conditions to allow that to happen - arrangements to allow goods and services to cross borders, taxation and tariffs, safety thresholds for products etc.

Edited by Davie P
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Civil servants do the background work regarding goods/services, taxations and tariffs, safety thresholds for products, etc.  Embassy staff have traditionally promoted British firms/goods but it's been the individual firms themselves who have bid for the majority of contracts, got their goods in shops abroad, etc.  The problem we're faced with is that those previously working at the DTI got re-deployed to Brussels.  The other problem has been the amount of manufacturers who have lobbied the EU for changes in legislation/EU Directives that made things more favourable for them.

I do object to May pampering to the EU and promising that we'll adopt a load of existing EU legislation, like on the Environment, into our laws before even negotiating on trade; it's none of their business!  You don't see Japan/Australia doing that when they negotiate a trading deal.  You don't see Japan/Australia agreeing as to what standard goods should be manufactured to that aren't going to be sold outside of each of those countries.  May should have told the EU where to go jump and let us decide later which bits of legislation re the Environment, for example, to keep, with due process through Parliament.

There's another post doing the rounds on Facebook, one that reckons we can trade with the EU for up to 10 years under WTO rules should we leave the EU without a deal ... so if that's true (and heck, who knows, anyone?) then why the hell are we attempting to set up trade deals now?  It does work both ways, and whilst the EU might collectively together be our largest individual trading partner (44%), that still leaves 66% elsewhere.

Had we had any backbone and said that we were leaving without a deal and prepared for that from Day 1, I don't think the EU would be being as bullish as they are now.

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I do object to May pampering to the EU and promising that we'll adopt a load of existing EU legislation, like on the Environment, into our laws before even negotiating on trade; it's none of their business!

May is not just pandering to the E.U. She was a remain freak from day one, and I suspect that she is doing no more than she has to be seen to do, regarding getting us out. If and when we get our freedom back, I don't really think that it will be anything like the freedom that was expected.

 

Have the Greco-Germanic gang put a bit of weight behind this?

Edited by George.
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Looking at what’s happening across Europe right now, I just wonder if we are all being manipulated by the far right. The EU are a big socialist group and the far right are keen to tear it apart. The working classes have been stirred up against it in this country and have by default backed up the far right. UKIP are taking on the mantle of the BNP, even Farage has left them. Next you know that neo nazi Tommy Robinson will be their fuhrer. We never seem to learn from history, despite the sacrifices made by our grandparents.

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"Civil servants do the background work regarding goods/services, taxations and tariffs, safety thresholds for products, etc.  Embassy staff have traditionally promoted British firms/goods but it's been the individual firms themselves who have bid for the majority of contracts, got their goods in shops abroad, etc.  The problem we're faced with is that those previously working at the DTI got re-deployed to Brussels.  The other problem has been the amount of manufacturers who have lobbied the EU for changes in legislation/EU Directives that made things more favourable for them."

 

Not sure where you are going with this? I don't think anybody has suggested anything else than that individual firms do the actual trading. What the governments do is decide tariffs and standards. Not background work but essential. So you realise that we don't have thousands of trade experts to negotiate all these wonderful trade deals with countries that we already trade with through the EU. I am still at a loss to understand how anybody thinks a medium sized country is somehow going to strike a better deal than a large trading block. Sorry I don't understand your last sentence in the context of Brexit.

 

"I do object to May pampering to the EU and promising that we'll adopt a load of existing EU legislation, like on the Environment, into our laws before even negotiating on trade; it's none of their business!  You don't see Japan/Australia doing that when they negotiate a trading deal.  You don't see Japan/Australia agreeing as to what standard goods should be manufactured to that aren't going to be sold outside of each of those countries.  May should have told the EU where to go jump and let us decide later which bits of legislation re the Environment, for example, to keep, with due process through Parliament."

 

Applicable EU legislation has already been adopted into UK law since 1972. This was confirmed by the European union withdrawal act. What is happening now is a tidying up of British law through hundreds of SI which will come into effect if we leave the EU. All passed through parliament with due process.

 

"There's another post doing the rounds on Facebook, one that reckons we can trade with the EU for up to 10 years under WTO rules should we leave the EU without a deal ... so if that's true (and heck, who knows, anyone?) then why the hell are we attempting to set up trade deals now?  It does work both ways, and whilst the EU might collectively together be our largest individual trading partner (44%), that still leaves 66% elsewhere.


Had we had any backbone and said that we were leaving without a deal and prepared for that from Day 1, I don't think the EU would be being as bullish as they are now."

 

What trade through WTO rules and give up our sovereignty to an unelected undemocratic cabal!

Although we are members of the WTO we still need to negotiate with them to trade and I believe any individual member can object and hold things up. 

Edited by mikeyboy
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The EU are a big socialist group and the far right are keen to tear it apart. 

The vast amounts of socialistic groups tend to vote in whoever they wish, whether it be to run the show, look after them or just to keep it going forward nice and smooth. When was Donald Tusk voted in, in any way, and by whom - and how left-wing and socialistic would that be?

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Barroso the then outgoing president of European Council did say that it would be difficult if not impossible for Scotland to join the EU if another member didn't approve. But what country would that be? Spain is often cited but the Spanish government has never to my knowledge said this. Would the UK have objected?

Edited by mikeyboy
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The EU has -----736 members (MEPs) and 46356 staff

 

House of Commons----- 650 MPs   and     2040 staff  

 

House of Lords-----   800 Lords   and      361 ? staff  

 

Scottish Parliament ----- 129 (MSPs)   and 490 staff

 

I would not vouch for the accuracy of those numbers but it is a colossal number of members and staff ,the wage bill must be millions .

 

Surely after so many years of trading and dealing globally the rules and regulations must already be in place so why do we require so  many MPs,MSPs,MEPs, and there associated staff.

 

Yeah! I know there is many millions of folk that need looking after but this is not the dole office,customs ,or other government staff ,this is purely parliamentary staff that I would guess we are all paying for, needlessly probably.. 

 

Something looks top heavy to me and I would start with our own MEPs by getting out of the EU.

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@mikeyboy - see DavieP's comment re trade deals.

I think you're missing the point; whilst EU Directives were put in statute (if we didn't comply, there would be fines), many voted leave because it's those very EU Directives that they don't like, plus the point I'm making is, is that it is NONE of the EU's business at this stage if we decide to drop, for example, those EU Directives pertaining to the Environment.  If parliament decides to keep them, that's our business, and sweet FA to do with the EU.

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I think you have missed the point or are you just moving the goal posts?

 

"I do object to May pampering to the EU and promising that we'll adopt a load of existing EU legislation"

 

The point I am making is that this EU legislation is already UK law. The UK had a hand in drafting and voting for the directives. Then the UK parliament debated, amended and then voted on the UK legislation. 

Edited by mikeyboy
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No, I'm not moving the goal posts.  Seriously, do you have to be so passive aggressive as to repeat a sentence twice?

Chances are we wouldn't have had such legislation in place if it had not been for the EU Directives.

 

Edit:  It's not all EU Directives either that we'll be subject to once we've left, just some but the point I made is that once we have left, it is nothing to do with them.  How the blooming heck you consider that to be moving the goal posts, I've no idea.

Edited by Suffererof1crankymofo
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