Brexit (merged threads)

[Wheelsup]

I dunna tink da country'll put up wi Boris or da Hunt fur lang. I doot an election'll follow shun efter idder wan o dem taks da post.

Da wirry is dat Farage fins himsel PM, dat wid laed to Scottish Independence.

Dat is, aless a coalition of LibLabGreens and SNP, manage ta seize pooer an force  anidder referendum.

I canna see ony tax cuts in England bein alloo'ed in Scotland idder. Da eens o wis dat work ir already paying mair tax nort o da boarder.

Nae winder Tavish is duckin oot noo. Hits goin to be a bun fight.

[Davie P]

Edited June 28, 2019 by Davie P

[Capeesh]

This poll of the Tory party membership is an eye opener. The Conservative and "Unionist" party couldn't give a hoot about the UK union, they would happily wreck the economy and see their own political party destroyed, all in the name of Brexit. At this rate Scotland won't have to vote for independence, the English nationalists look like they're going to boot us out.

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Capeesh

[Davie P]

This was a disrespectful display from the Brexit Party members, and the Lib Dems too, at the European Parliament today - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48839829

 

If this is the state of British diplomacy.......

Edited July 2, 2019 by Davie P

[Davie P]

It's interesting to note that the Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond is estimating that the immediate impact of a no deal Brexit will cost us £90 billion - in effect wiping out the fiscal headroom built up through years of Tory austerity. I should imagine he'll have to austed from cabinet in the next Boris / Hunt reshuffle for pissing on the hardline Brexit chips with that prediction. 

 

It's good to see all the hardships the least wealthy members of society have endured recently will have been worth it 

 

But the disproportionately wealthy Tory membership who will be deciding on the new PM seem to be willing to accept that, so long as we 'take back control'

 

Hey ho, bring back the spirit of the blitz and all that.

[Sacre Bleu]

There have been few periods in the past 40 years or so when global economic politics and conditions have been so unfavourable for international 'trade talks'

 

There has been a significant change toward nationalistic protectionist economic policies, of which the USA's 'trade tariffs' are symptomatic, in the past 18 months. This, and many other factors, are increasing the chances of a global economic downturn and possible recession. The early indicators of recession in the UK are already visible.

 

An economically weakened UK cut loose from the EU will not be in a favourable bargaining position.

 

Politicians who are advocating a no-deal Brexit and fail to address this material change in circumstances are, in my humble opinion, simply playing to the short-term populist gallery.

[Urabug]

This was a disrespectful display from the Brexit Party members, and the Lib Dems too, at the European Parliament today - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48839829

 

If this is the state of British diplomacy.......

I would call it a show of strength from the Brexit Party. Well done I would say ,but I cannot say the same for the Liberals a bunch of hypocrites destroying  British democracy. 

 

Hope we have a Brexit candidate in the upcoming by-election

[Sacre Bleu]

I find comments such as the above accusing Liberal Democrats as being "bunch of hypocrites destroying British democracy" to be undermining of democracy. The Liberals, whether you agree or disagree with their policies, have been consistent in their support for the EU and so are not hypocrites, and they are free to express their opinions, as are the Brexit Party.

 

But more importantly, the wider principles of democracy have been trivialised to the point that a pre-legislative referendum three years ago is being promoted by many as the 'true' or 'ultimate' form of democracy, and all other more established mechanisms of democratic governance must be subverted, and wider socio-economic circumstances, developments since the referendum, and new knowledge must be ignored. This is reckless and myopic logic.

 

We should certainly be holding our government to account to act in our best interests, but in doing so we should be aware that the referendum is but one factor in a complex series of decisions which must be made to arrive at the optimum outcome.

 

We need mature and non-partisan debate where all facts, developments, options and potential outcomes are presented. This is not a time for partly-political polarised posturing. If through such a process Brexit emerged as the optimum outcome, then so be it. However, I know of few well-considered lines of thought that would arrive at a no-deal Brexit as being a desirable conclusion.

 

The future of the UK in terms of Brexit will determined by one of two politicians who are engaged in a popularity contest where they must appease a small and unrepresentative demographic of the population in the form of conservative party members who favour a no-deal Brexit, so the ship of representative democracy may well have floundered.

[George.]

Where, particularly, is the U.K? Is it, in any way whatsoever, relevent to anything that James III did, believed in, or had anything to do with. After the man that took Shetland into Scotland, spot the fact that there is no relationship with Brit* here. Jimmy four or five for that matter had nothing to do with the Brit*s either. Where is this place that the Westminstorean winkers choose to call "Britain", but luckily I don't live there.

 

However, the eurofreeks, in particular, the ones that pander to their royalty, will claim otherwise - regardless of proof.

[Sacre Bleu]

Forgive me if I have misinterpreted your post George, but it could be argued that Brexit is but another chapter in Britain's relationship with mainland Europe. Even the name 'Britain' can be traced back to a confluence of Latin and early French, some of the first recorded use of the word is from the writings of Greek explorers, and the name became established as the Roman outpost of 'Britannia'.

 

The geographic area in question has ebbed and flowed over history, and even included the part of France now known as Brittany during the Middle Ages. With regards to Shetland, it was annexed to Scotland in 1471, and Scotland joined England in the United Kingdom via the 1707 Act of Union, so Shetland is indeed part of Britain both geographically and legislatively (if not completely culturally!)

 

But for the sake of brevity of explanation, 'Britain' is generally considered to be a landmass and the 'UK' is a governance structure.

 

With regards to Westminster, Britain is a conceptual understanding of landmass that predates the Westminster seat of government by several centuries.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Sacre Bleu

[Wheelsup]

No matter what political entity claims ownership of this part of the British Isles, I will always be British. I have some “Scottish” roots but I live in Shetland not Scotland. However I think I do not have any chips on my shoulder about sharing the British Isles with English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish. Time to grow up and move on.

[George.]

^ ^Very true, SB, Britain, as the geographical area, or rather, the area that is England, has had links with a lot of other places. Having said that, that was a day or two before Scotland, in any way at all, had any link to England. Scotland had its own connections to other areas. Not, as I understand, quite as great an amount of connections, but very strong connections all the same. Thanks to Jimmy Three, Shetland became part of Scotland as it still is, but has been very Nordic since A.D 5-600.

 

Having said that, it must be accepted that Britain is not a democracy in any way or form and, IMHO, it never has been and never will be. That is inflicted upon us by them down there. Anthony Eden and the Treaty of Funtioning of the European Union - no democracy. Tony Blair and the changing of the marine border between Scotland and England - no democracy. The manner that Westminster abuses democracy by letting everybody in to the shop - except the S.N.P. Says it all, dunnit.

[Sacre Bleu]

To say that Scotland and England had no links before unification “in any way at all” is highly ignorant of history. To say “it must be accepted that Britain is not a democracy in any way or form” implies a lack of understanding of the mechanisms of democracy. To imply that the SNP are not represented at Westminster is a fanciful falsehood. I could go on.

[George.]

I learn, day by day, just how lucky I am to be a Pict.

[Muckle Oxters]

I tink du spelled yun last word wrang