Brexit (merged threads)

[Urabug]

What puzzles me is those who keep harping on about a new deal,another deal what deal the EU has given us a deal and have AFAIK said they will not negotiate any further.

 

Boris cannot get another deal no one can,negotiations are closed so what are all those remoaners going on about.

 

Would a new elected group of MPs have to accept the existing deal or will the EU re-open negotiations.

 

The rebels want article 50 revoked and us to remain in the EU full stop which is a slap in the face for everyone who went to the ballet box June 2016.

[George.]

A lot of people have lately been telling us that the vote to leave or remain was only advisery. If it is only advisery, why did Cameron make the announcement that he made?

 

David Cameron confirmed Sunday that he will pull Britain out of the single market if there is a vote to leave the European Union at the upcoming referendum.

 

If what some people have been stating is true, it kinda shows, catagorically, just how democratic Westminster actually is.

[JGHR]

What puzzles me is those who keep harping on about a new deal,another deal what deal the EU has given us a deal and have AFAIK said they will not negotiate any further.

 

No need to be puzzled, its quite simple. Theresa May's Tory government negotiated a deal to leave the EU with the EU representatives. The EU did not 'give us' anything, they negotiated in good faith, with the British government of the time, terms under which Britain would leave the EU. The EU representatives were quite clear that some aspects of the deal they reached with Mrs May, namely the question of the Irish border were non negotiable for them. 

 

Boris cannot get another deal no one can,negotiations are closed so what are all those remoaners going on about.

Boris cannot get another deal that is correct, but not because negotiations are closed, they are not, but because he has no intention or desire to get another deal. So far the extent of his efforts to reach a new deal amount to, firstly, claiming that the changes of not reaching another deal were 'a million to one'. Secondly, bustling off to Brussels, so far as I recall on a single occasion, and telling the EU representatives to scrap the back stop which of course they rejected, as every single person in the country with an ounce of wit knew they were going to. Thirdly, returning to the UK and claiming that parliament had undermined his non existent negotiation. 

 

Boris and his deluded bunch of public school boy cabinet chums are the only ones claiming that they can 'get another deal' and it strikes me that it's you doing most of the moaning.

 

Would a new elected group of MPs have to accept the existing deal or will the EU re-open negotiations.

 

The rebels want article 50 revoked and us to remain in the EU full stop which is a slap in the face for everyone who went to the ballet box June 2016.

It was Boris and his merry band of Brexiteers who voted down Mrs May's deal, were it not for them Britain would already be out of the EU and 'Getting on with it' 'no ifs no buts', 'come what may', 'do or die'. Now that it seems more and more likely that Britain will remain in the EU, never forget who's fault that outcome will be. It will not be due to the 'remoaners' it will be the fault of Boris and the Tory party MPs who voted down the deal Mrs May reached. 

 

Parliament will never allow Britain to leave without some kind of deal, because MP's are not permitted to do that under their code of conduct which says 'Members have a general duty to act in the interests of the nation as a whole; and a special duty to their constituents.'   The majority of MP's understand that allowing the UK to leave the EU without a deal would not be 'acting in the interests of the nation as a whole' therefore they are prohibited from facilitating that outcome.

 

Boris will never reach a deal with the EU ever, unless he suddenly changes tack, and Britain will never leave with no deal. If you want Britain to leave the EU the only hope you have, ironically enough, is if Prime Minister Corbyn goes to Brussels and negotiates the exit. Keep that in mind when marking your card at the upcoming election. 

 

[Windwalker]

If things are bad now, god help us if Jeremy Corbin ever takes the reigns

[mikeyboy]

^That kinda shows just how much honesty you find around Westminster, Mikeyboy. Cameron made the promise, Cameron arranged the vote, Cameron was well aware of the result. Three weeks later he announced his resignation. The following incomers showed just how democratic Westminster is.

 

IMHO, anyway.

 

Yes George Cameron made the promise but did not ensure the referendum was legally binding. When he resigned and a new government came in May had no obligation to trigger article 50.

[mikeyboy]

The issue is none of them are acting in a democratic way, whether it be Westminster with Brexit or sturgeon with the independence vote. They all have their own agenda and are sticking two fingers up at democracy.

 

Incorrect Sturgeon is acting in a democratic way. SNP had in their manifesto the commitment to hold a second referendum if circumstances drastically changed ie Brexit.

Since they were voted in on that manifesto that is democracy in action.

Her offer to May to take independence of the table if there was a separate arrangement for Scotland to me was a fair one.

[mikeyboy]

 

Sorry if you didn't understand it but it was always advisory.

The reason I wouldn’t have understood it is quite simple. The government sent out a leaflet to every home prior to the vote, headed “a once in a generation decision” and whilst they recommended that we should remain in the EU, it clearly stated “ the referendum is your chance to decide whether we should remain in or leave the European Union.

 

The leaflet went on to say the following: “This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide”. That seems pretty clear to me. No where in this leaflet did it state your vote will only be advisory.

 

I would think that most people reading this leaflet would assume the outcome of the vote would be carried out. As a person who voted to remain, I was disappointed with the result, but as I believe in democracy, I accept the result.

 

 

I understood and had access to exactly the same information you had access to.

Anyway circumstances have moved beyond this now.

Edited September 6, 2019 by mikeyboy

[Windwalker]

 

The issue is none of them are acting in a democratic way, whether it be Westminster with Brexit or sturgeon with the independence vote. They all have their own agenda and are sticking two fingers up at democracy.

 

 

Incorrect Sturgeon is acting in a democratic way. SNP had in their manifesto the commitment to hold a second referendum if circumstances drastically changed ie Brexit.

Since they were voted in on that manifesto that is democracy in action.

Her offer to May to take independence of the table if there was a separate arrangement for Scotland to me was a fair one.

And to heck with the decision of the people

[mikeyboy]

Read my second line

Situations change!

Edited September 6, 2019 by mikeyboy

[Windwalker]

 

 

Sorry if you didn't understand it but it was always advisory.

 

The reason I wouldn’t have understood it is quite simple. The government sent out a leaflet to every home prior to the vote, headed “a once in a generation decision” and whilst they recommended that we should remain in the EU, it clearly stated “ the referendum is your chance to decide whether we should remain in or leave the European Union.

 

The leaflet went on to say the following: “This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide”. That seems pretty clear to me. No where in this leaflet did it state your vote will only be advisory.

 

I would think that most people reading this leaflet would assume the outcome of the vote would be carried out. As a person who voted to remain, I was disappointed with the result, but as I believe in democracy, I accept the result.

 

I understood and had access to exactly the same information you had access to.

Anyway circumstances have moved beyond this now.

I suppose if you keep saying it folk might start to believe it, but the reality as nothing came through people’s doors even from the remainers saying it would only be advisory. This was not clear at the time of voting.

[Windwalker]

Read my second line

Situations change!

Aye, but sturgeon’s determination to have independence regardless of the majority being against it doesn’t.

[mikeyboy]

 

 

 

Sorry if you didn't understand it but it was always advisory.

The reason I wouldn’t have understood it is quite simple. The government sent out a leaflet to every home prior to the vote, headed “a once in a generation decision” and whilst they recommended that we should remain in the EU, it clearly stated “ the referendum is your chance to decide whether we should remain in or leave the European Union.

 

The leaflet went on to say the following: “This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide”. That seems pretty clear to me. No where in this leaflet did it state your vote will only be advisory.

 

I would think that most people reading this leaflet would assume the outcome of the vote would be carried out. As a person who voted to remain, I was disappointed with the result, but as I believe in democracy, I accept the result.

 

I understood and had access to exactly the same information you had access to.

Anyway circumstances have moved beyond this now.

I suppose if you keep saying it folk might start to believe it, but the reality as nothing came through people’s doors even from the remainers saying it would only be advisory. This was not clear at the time of voting.

 

It is not me saying it, it is just a fact. Nothing to do with remainers.

 

Read my second line

Situations change!

Aye, but sturgeon’s determination to have independence regardless of the majority being against it doesn’t.

 

What do you not understand about this? It was in the manifesto that SNP were voted in on.

[Urabug]

Well I am confused, as I understand the situation, Teresa May negotiated a deal with the EU which was rejected by our government three times over the back stop clause, and the EU then said they would not alter the back stop therefore bringing negotiations to a stop.

 

Now Boris no doubt thought that if he could make it look like we would crash out of the EU with no deal , the EU would then invite us back to the table for further discussions and possible solution because they do not want us to leave .They need our money..

 

But alas the "rebels" stuck a "spike in the spokes" and scuppered Boris plans now giving the EU the opportunity to sit back laugh at us and do nothing.

 

But folk still "harp on" that we can go back to the EU and continue to bargain for a more acceptable deal. Can we !

 

Surely NO means NO  what do I not understand. 

 

It was the UK parliament that rejected the so called deal three times,and a better one is not on offer .

 

So a general election ,public opinion totally confused,new parliament same old deal on the table and  here we go again. is that the scenario .

Edited September 6, 2019 by Urabug

[Roachmill]

is that the scenario .

 

You missed out Labour wanting to negotiate their own exit deal and have a 2nd referendum with remain as an option. Fiona Bruce put this to Emily Thornberry asking her which option the Labour Party would campaign for: the deal or remain?       

[Urabug]

 

is that the scenario .

 

You missed out Labour wanting to negotiate their own exit deal and have a 2nd referendum with remain as an option. Fiona Bruce put this to Emily Thornberry asking her which option the Labour Party would campaign for: the deal or remain?       

 

Yes more exciting ,and even more confusing times ahead .

 

Ma'be the Brexit party will sort things out.