Brexit (merged threads)

[Ghostrider]

^ I prefer Taured for my hols, got me a Passport, Driving Licence and all other legal papers kinda thing from them, just for visiting occasionally. Great place, think I may move there soon, they've never been tempted to get entangle din this weird EU thing, they keep life relaxed and out of such hassles.

[Ghostrider]

 

 

I just would like some reassurance that Shetland NHS is on top of this and has forethought and initiative.

Stop worrying everything will be just fine.

You could take advice from random people off the internet or you could seek advice from people who know what they're talking about like the Royal Pharmaceutical Society

This isn't "Project Fear" these are people who know what they're talking about trying to make sure people don't die from shortages in medicine

 

 

With the Scottish NHS being in the control of Holyrood, what may or may not happen is far more likely to be 'manufactured' by politicians for political gain than be the result of what the trade may or may not do.  I fully expect the bunch holding sway in Holyrood to either turn a blind eye and deaf ear to any issue that could potentailly lead to a shortage just so they can blame the English for the shortage when it occurs, or pull out all the stops to ensure mo shortages occur and then use that as bragging rights of how they've prevented a disaster of English creation.

 

The level of anti-Englishness and the depths the Nats will stoop to to score cheap shots against them make it almost inevitable.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Ghostrider

[Urabug]

The way I see it now the EU hold the trump card,either they can re-open negotiations or state quite clearly there will be no further extension past the 31st October  either way this will only prolong the situation .

 

Of course the EU will do neither of those things holding us to ransom and at there mercy. This is just a game to them now and I bet they are enjoying it. 

 

Guess we will all have to accept that we are being forced into being part of the Great United States of Europe and no escape.

 

Boris tried, give him credit for that,but I doubt if he can pull any more tricks so it will be another skipper soon.  

[Capeesh]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just would like some reassurance that Shetland NHS is on top of this and has forethought and initiative.

 

Stop worrying everything will be just fine.

You could take advice from random people off the internet or you could seek advice from people who know what they're talking about like the Royal Pharmaceutical Society

This isn't "Project Fear" these are people who know what they're talking about trying to make sure people don't die from shortages in medicine

 

With the Scottish NHS being in the control of Holyrood, what may or may not happen is far more likely to be 'manufactured' by politicians for political gain than be the result of what the trade may or may not do.  I fully expect the bunch holding sway in Holyrood to either turn a blind eye and deaf ear to any issue that could potentailly lead to a shortage just so they can blame the English for the shortage when it occurs, or pull out all the stops to ensure mo shortages occur and then use that as bragging rights of how they've prevented a disaster of English creation.

 

The level of anti-Englishness and the depths the Nats will stoop to to score cheap shots against them make it almost inevitable.

The Royal Pharmaceutical Society, The British Medical Journal, the UK's own civil service, the NHS in all parts of the UK and all the other people who know what their on about are saying there's a real risk of medicine shortages in the event of a no deal Brexit, nothing to do with Holyrood.

Will Brexit supporters ever take ownership of their own mess?

Probably not. They're trying to blame the dog.

[Capeesh]

The way I see it now the EU hold the trump card,either they can re-open negotiations or state quite clearly there will be no further extension past the 31st October either way this will only prolong the situation .

 

Of course the EU will do neither of those things holding us to ransom and at there mercy. This is just a game to them now and I bet they are enjoying it.

 

Guess we will all have to accept that we are being forced into being part of the Great United States of Europe and no escape.

 

Boris tried, give him credit for that,but I doubt if he can pull any more tricks so it will be another skipper soon.

 

You can't shoot yourself in the foot and blame the EU for the pain. Take responsibility, you voted for it.

Boris is pretending to negotiate, one of the first things he did was get rid of most of the negotiating team, he left a few yes men to sip champagne and sit on their hands in the wine bars of Brussels while he tours the U.K. trying to convince the gullible that when crap/fan day comes it was nothing to do with him, it was the big bad EU that did it. He's a shyster and a charlatan.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Capeesh

[Ghostrider]

 

 

 

 

I just would like some reassurance that Shetland NHS is on top of this and has forethought and initiative.

Stop worrying everything will be just fine.

You could take advice from random people off the internet or you could seek advice from people who know what they're talking about like the Royal Pharmaceutical Society

This isn't "Project Fear" these are people who know what they're talking about trying to make sure people don't die from shortages in medicine

 

With the Scottish NHS being in the control of Holyrood, what may or may not happen is far more likely to be 'manufactured' by politicians for political gain than be the result of what the trade may or may not do.  I fully expect the bunch holding sway in Holyrood to either turn a blind eye and deaf ear to any issue that could potentailly lead to a shortage just so they can blame the English for the shortage when it occurs, or pull out all the stops to ensure mo shortages occur and then use that as bragging rights of how they've prevented a disaster of English creation.

 

The level of anti-Englishness and the depths the Nats will stoop to to score cheap shots against them make it almost inevitable.

The Royal Pharmaceutical Society, The British Medical Journal, the UK's own civil service, the NHS in all parts of the UK and all the other people who know what their on about are saying there's a real risk of medicine shortages in the event of a no deal Brexit, nothing to do with Holyrood.

Will Brexit supporters ever take ownership of their own mess?

Probably not. They're trying to blame the dog.

 

 

There's always a 'risk' of a shortage of anything. Shortages of 'medicine' happen and have happened off and on all the time for one reason or another, brexit is just one more 'possible' reason, no more, no less, any 'change' to anything involved anywhere in the supply chain is a 'risk; unless addressed adequately and in good time. There was a 'shortage' of flu vacs a couple or so winters back to name just one, nothing to do with brexit that one.....

 

If reliance on supply from an EU nation for any sort of product hasn't been addressed and adequate supplies secured from alternative sources by now, any and all fault and blame lies with the NHS and/or the industry and whatever oars politics have seen fit to poke it with, they've had well over three years to get their turd sorted after all. How long does it take to set up an account with some other big pharma entity before you have to conclude the ones supposedly trying to do it are nothing but a bunch of incompetent numpties......a hell of a lot less than three years, in my book anyway.

 

Holyrood in its present hands will make whatever political capital it can from whatever way the situation plays out, and to hell with the colleateral damage, that's just how they are.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Ghostrider

[Capeesh]

There was always going to be costs and consequences associated with leaving the EU.

The "collateral damage" is the result of voting to leave.

Now it's getting near crunch time the ones carrying the can are desperate to deflect blame for the inevitable fallout to others.

Will they man up and take responsibility...not a chance.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Capeesh

[Windwalker]

The “collateral damage” isn’t as a result of people voting to leave, it parliaments inability to agree a deal with the EU. I think if anyone is to blame, it’s our incompetent MPs who after 3 years could not get a deal agreed.

 

The time and effort they have spent arguing with each other rather than with the EU has got us where we are.

 

Of course you could also say that it’s the remainers fault as they have done their best to try and stop the will of the people at every turn.

[Ghostrider]

There was always going to be costs and consequences associated with leaving the EU.

The "collateral damage" is the result of voting to leave.

Now it's getting near crunch time the ones carrying the can are desperate to deflect blame for the inevitable fallout to others.

Will they man up and take responsibility...not a chance.

 

Any collateral damage is the fault of Parliament/Government.

 

When they authorised the holding of a referendum they by default accepted responsibility to deal with the result in an appropriate and responsible manner, they've spent three years failing at that. Again when the triggered Arcticle 50 they by default were accepting responsibility for dealing with the then known result of the referendum in a responsible and appropriate manner, and again they've failed at that ever since.

 

Both the Tories and Labour fought the 2017 election on manifestos accepting the outcome of the referendum result and undertaking to deliver brexit.

 

In the two years since all the Tories and Labour have done are fight each other and fight among themselves as apparently roughly equal factions of brexit supporters who are adhering to their party manifesto undertaking slug it out with remainers disregarding their party manifesto as each camp attempts to get an upper hand.

 

If you want to play the blame game, start off with those who undertake to do a job, and ever since have done just about anything and everything else but that job.

 

Both parties  have lacked any sort of leadership or direction since the last election and have been running around like unregulated rabble, the point of having a party system and party policy is that all party members act in a cohesive and united manner and get things done. With both main parties giving manifesto undertaking to respect teh referendum result and deliver brexit, we should have been home, dry and laughing long ago.

 

Corbyn doesn't know whether he's coming or going with policy, and has no more control over anyone as he has over his yesterday's turd, add to that May who could barely hide her own remainer side, and its no wonder its all FUBAR now. When party leaders do not support their own manifesto undertakings, or are too weak to enforce them, this shambles in which we're currently living is what you get.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Ghostrider

[Capeesh]

@Windwalker

I beg to differ. There's two sides to any negotiation, there was no way the EU would budge on their four freedoms or the legislation any country, whether in the EU or EFTA, have to abide by for single market access. Those are their red lines.

They've made that abundantly clear right from the very start, even before the referendum.

The UK government has been trying and failing because what they're looking for is unacceptable to the 27 other member states of the EU.

Every compromise makes us worse off than if we remained members, we knew this before the referendum, If this wasn't the case there wouldn't be an EU, nobody would want to join, everybody would leave, it's so obvious I feel silly even typing it. No wonder parliament's been struggling with it, it's a lose, lose situation.

Vote to leave = worse off = collateral damage.

Blaming remainers is a cop out and music to Boris Johnsons ears, any deal which inflicted the least damage would've passed parliament no probs if they had tried it at the start, it would also in all likelihood been an acceptable compromise for most remain voters but the Tories alone took any kind of soft Brexit off the table because they've been pandering to looneys in their own party like Rees-Mogg and the ERG

Edited September 7, 2019 by Capeesh

[Ghostrider]

There's two sides to any negotiation, there was no way the EU would budge on their four freedoms or the legislation any country, whether in the EU or EFTA, have to abide by for single market access. Those are their red lines.

They've made that abundantly clear right from the very start, even before the referendum.

 

Which proves that those who voted leave knew full well (or could and should have known) precisely what they were voting for, a no deal exit from the EU. Despite numerous remainers peddling the insultingly patronising allegations that leave voters believed 'lies' and 'didn't know what they were voting for.

 

The only real difference of opinion between your average leave and remain voter is that a leave voter believes that the 'collateral damage' in the short term created by leaving will be more than compensated for by the longer term benefits of being rid of Brussels, while the remain voter believes the collateral damage is unreasonable and we will be worse off out than in.

 

Leavers can see a vision of rebuilding a strong independent nation which makes its own decisions in its own interests and prospers as a result, remainers can only see a weak nation, too small to survive alone on the world stage which needs direction and assistance from others to survive.

[mikeyboy]

Nobody mentioned leaving with no deal at the time. we were promised the easiest deal possible by everybody in the leave campaigns. Even Farage said he would be happy with a Norway style deal. The official leave campaign had a whole section on how No deal and WTO rules were by far the worse option.

Strangely the tone only hardened after May realised she had boxed herself in with her Red lines. At that point the EU were offering quite a reasonable compromise that would have allowed continued unrestricted trade. Suddenly it was " No deal is better than a bad deal!"

[Capeesh]

@ Ghostrider

A utopian Brexit outcome sounds nice.

I hope you're right and the experts are wrong.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Capeesh

[Capeesh]

Nobody mentioned leaving with no deal at the time. we were promised the easiest deal possible by everybody in the leave campaigns. Even Farage said he would be happy with a Norway style deal. The official leave campaign had a whole section on how No deal and WTO rules were by far the worse option.

Strangely the tone only hardened after May realised she had boxed herself in with her Red lines. At that point the EU were offering quite a reasonable compromise that would have allowed continued unrestricted trade. Suddenly it was " No deal is better than a bad deal!"

The truth of this is staring everybody in the face, it's easily checked.

Without a doubt there's people out there who want Brexit no matter what, medicine shortages, food shortages, pound crashing, companies up and leaving etc all an acceptable price to pay but there also must be people out there who swallowed the lies and now reality is starting to dawn on them are thinking.."WTF have I done!"

[mikeyboy]

Sorry had to go to a meeting!

 

I don't think it is patronising to say that people believed lies because people did believe the lies and still do. Often stuff that was debunked years ago is still quoted so obviously this is that case.

 

I agree with your view on the differences between those that voted. Which is why it is really unhelpful to see this constant emotive them and us rhetoric on social media and in certain papers. 

 

I just personally can not see how the UK will be better off outside the EU.