Brexit (merged threads)

[Colin]

The "deal" seems to be "how to come out of Europe without leaving",

[Ghostrider]

Do folk tink dat Westminster will negotiate a better 'post-brexit' deal fur Shetland dan we hae under da CFP?

 

I think I'll wait until I see some signs of us actually having Brexit before I worry about that one much.

 

So far the only noises from the politicians have been the real world equivalent of somebody throwing a right old paddy on a social media site about how upset and offended they are, flinging all their toys out of the pram and announcing they're leaving the site/group/whatever......... Then not deleting their account.

[shetlander]

The 'added value' sector however virtually ceases to exist, 40 year ago there were in to double figures of processing factories, all appearing to be doing pretty okay, now unless for one or two niche outfits there's nothing. Relying entirely on a 'fresh' only market for whitefish, which in turn relies a boat run by politicians making a trip every night, or boats tripping it themselves, is putting eggs all in one basket, which is never wise.

HIE commissioned a report on this very subject a few years ago. From memory, as little as 2% of the whitefish landed here is processed here. I’ll see if I can hock it oot but what it said was that the speed mainland processors can now get whole or gutted fresh fish from here, the costs of importing packaging and a lack of local labour are all things that might limit more value-added processing being done.

 

While I get the benefits that *might* come about on the catching side, I can’t see Brexit changing any of that given that wir competition is from within the UK rather from the EU but I’d be happy to be proven wrong. If anything I can only see the labour situation worsening given the number of EU nationals who have willingly worked in fish factories here in recent years while many of the rest of us have turned our noses up at that kind of work.

[Muckle Oxters]

Ony o you Brexit supporters hae ony celebrations ower da helly?!

[Colin]

Na, I'm still waiting for the world to stop turning....

[Ghostrider]

Ony o you Brexit supporters hae ony celebrations ower da helly?!

Nope, why would we? Its not happened yet.

 

The legislation to put the Brexit process in motion has gone on to the statute books, but we still have more than 10 months minimum of torture to endure before it actually happens, more than plenty of time for those in charge to f**k it up entirely.

 

I may celebrate come December the whatever, but we'll see if what's on the table by then is worth a sh*t first. I suspect it'll be more a case of drowning sorrows, but we'll see.......

[NullVoid]

Nope, why would we? Its not happened yet.

 

The legislation to put the Brexit process in motion has gone on to the statute books, but we still have more than 10 months minimum of torture to endure before it actually happens, more than plenty of time for those in charge to f**k it up entirely.

 

I may celebrate come December the whatever, but we'll see if what's on the table by then is worth a sh*t first. I suspect it'll be more a case of drowning sorrows, but we'll see.......

 

 

Technically the UK can now make trade deals etc provided they are effective next year or whenever,

Most of the "Problems caused by Brexit" are actually problems caused by indecisiveness and having a Fiat currency that can drop in value when large sums of pounds are shorted by billionaire investors and banks,

 

Which would be a case for going back to the gold standard or something of that nature rather than to kneel before our Banking overlords and grovel at them whilst giving ourselves 50 lashes to Atone for the electorate displeasing them.

 

ideas like CANZUK are being discussed as they are now possible

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CANZUK

Would be interesting to see this since Canada, Australia & New Zealand are places Non-retirees from the UK would move to,

after all the UK as a whole should be exporting rather than importing workers and if those with middle class jobs started moving away some of the poorer people would have opportunities for promotion and job vacancies.

 

After all too many workers too few jobs was one of the reasons people wanted to end free movement within the EU,

but if there was places that people would move to rather than away from it in the same group as UK it might be more popular in the areas where Brexit is popular.

 

Places where people besides retirees would move to pensioners would likely be let in anyway because of their pensions.

Sh¡t Life Syndrome rather than any Libertarian argument won Brexit and flipped many of the areas that voted Labour for decades this election cycle

 

They flipped a bunch of places like Bridgend,Wales which is only famous for a mass suicide and many like it to gain the majority they did.

 

the europhile argument "Boo hoo i cant retire in France or Milan now, therefor we must stop brexit" didnt win over the low life expectancy areas the conservatives have been focusing their attention to in recent elections

as for Scotland voting differently referendum was supposed to be once in a generation and the total UK population looks like this

but that's going to be what we spend the year hearing about,

Oh and TV licensing, Are we going to do the right thing like Norway and Denmark did or the wrong thing that Germany did with it

[Capeesh]

The real negotiations start in March. If we're using the negotiating prowess of the Tory government over the last 3 plus years as a benchmark we'll be lucky to come out of the horse trading in the transition period with our underwear still on.

[Ghostrider]

 If we're using the negotiating prowess of the Tory government over the last 3 plus years as a benchmark......

We're not. With remainers in charge of it, it was a bloody miracle the last 3 years even achieved what they did. All they wanted and attempted to achieve was to retain the previous status quo but written in different words......

 

The mob that's in now say they're going to get on with it.................that's about the best you can ever hope for from any collective of politicians. Whether they're genuinely leavers, or closet remainers playing the role of leavers we shall never know, but we'll get a damn good idea  on the subject as the year progresses.

 

It's on Boris head, unless he delivers the Brexit leavers are happy with, he has about as much of a successful future to look forward to beyond 2020 as the Hindenberg had as she glided in to her NJ docking tower on May 6th 1937.

[NullVoid]

The mob that's in now say they're going to get on with it.................that's about the best you can ever hope for from any collective of politicians. Whether they're genuinely leavers, or closet remainers playing the role of leavers we shall never know, but we'll get a damn good idea  on the subject as the year progresses.

 

It's on Boris head, unless he delivers the Brexit leavers are happy with, he has about as much of a successful future to look forward to beyond 2020 as the Hindenberg had as she glided in to her NJ docking tower on May 6th 1937.

 

 

Oh the people who abandoned UKIP when the conservatives offered them table scraps are going to back some other party, Who are they going to vote for?

People who blame Thatcher for their towns becoming poor voted Labour until recently but Labour temporarily losing these people may be  outweighed by the other groups they have invested in.
Regional parties winning most of Scotland and Western Wales helped split the vote in the conservatives favor.
But Labour is playing the long game and may able to out manoeuvrer this short term victory.

I expect them to win the battle but lose the war Labour has on its side:
The British equivalent of the German Antideutsch(politics of self hatred)
Baizuo
Impoverished people who will vote left because they fear austerity
Groups that will tribalistically vote against nationalist parties

They can also rig the system to stop immigrants more likely to oppose left wing values from residing in the UK while fighting tooth and nail to bring home known terrorists.

 

Āsia Bibi was convicted of blasphemy by a Pakistani court and was sentenced to death
In October 2018, the Supreme Court of Pakistan acquitted her based on insufficient evidence
Āsia Bibi appealed to Britain for asylum but was denied because her presence in the country might stir unrest among "certain sections of the population"

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/britain-not-prepared-to-offer-asylum-to-persecuted-pakistani-christian_uk_5be3342be4b0dbe871a61b95

.

May was supposed to be a right wing politician but so was Merkel so that's a moot point “Justice democrats” in the USA openly talk about running for the other party as double agents same thing happens in the UK

 

though Conservatives will work round the clock to appease people who hate them and flush away everything they believe in to do that while the left simply declares their enemies to be within Dar al-Harb and does what it can to thin their numbers and demoralise them

 

Labours Mondeo man quote

His dad voted Labour, he said. He used to vote Labour, too. But he'd bought his own house now. He'd set up his own business. He was doing very nicely. "So I've become a Tory" he said. In that moment, he crystallised for me the basis of our failure... His instincts were to get on in life. And he thought our instincts were to stop him

By fostering policies that lead to Job scarcity, low wages and low rates of under 40s home ownership and communalism Labour can prevent this from happening to the next generation

Low birth rates among typically conservative voting groups and high birth rates among Labour voting groups, Democracy is a  numbers game after all
 

[George.]

^"Regional parties winning most of Scotland and Western Wales......" Don't think that there's an awful lot of political parties in Western Wales   and there's only one party worth having in Scotland, regional or not - and it won't be in any way British. IMHO anyway.

Edited February 6, 2020 by George.

[NullVoid]

^"Regional parties winning most of Scotland and Western Wales......" Don't think that there's an awful lot of political parties in Western Wales   and there's only one party worth having in Scotland, regional or not - and it won't be in any way British. IMHO anyway.

Plaid Cymru won a chunk of the area where a large portion of welsh speakers live 29% of wales speaks it Neither them nor SNP field candidates outside of their region.

This meant that only Labour or the conservatives could get a Majority but mostly in Eastern Wales and England

 

this map lines up with this other map except Anglesea

SNP mostly took Labour and Lib Dem regions and has no candidates in Wales or England which splits the vote in the conservatives favor but helped conservatives win parts of Scotland too

Edited February 6, 2020 by NullVoid

[Wheelsup]

Wonder when the Penny will drop for the SNP, that they have to vet their ministers and members better. They’re worse than the tories.

Roll on the next independence referendum. That will finish them off for good.

[NullVoid]

Wonder when the Penny will drop for the SNP, that they have to vet their ministers and members better. They’re worse than the tories.

Roll on the next independence referendum. That will finish them off for good.

 

Considering the fact that they are politicians and their supporters will vote for them anyway...

Im guessing they will keep their members as they are, so NEVER!

 

They are trying to appeal to Nationalists(Right Wing) and Leftists(Internationalists) at the same time and that's a recipe to disappoint both

Second referendum will need to wait until it has been 12 - 24 years since the first one depending on how you define "Once in a generation" but they will keep pushing the issue for self promotion

[Ghostrider]

The vast majority of the silent SNP support would evaporate if there was a credible alternative to vote for, their support only grew as Labour both nationally, but especially in Scotland crumbled in to a pile of dust blowing in the wind. Its a protest vote rather than a change of allegiance.

 

*If* Labour could find their phoenix gene and rise again as something remotely electable, the Nats would soon be sidelined back to where they were a couple of decades ago.

 

Its going to get interesting before long though, as the Nats are rapidly making themselves as unelectable as Labour have been this last 10 years or so. With no currently credible left wing alternative, whats Holyrood going to be filled with in a few years........Extremely low turnouts of voters due to 'nobody worth voting for' and a rise in the gains for the lunatic fringes.

 

The Nats have to keep plugging independence continuously and at every opportunity, the goods, bads and indefferents of the concept are irrelevant as far as they're concerned, their motivation is its the only gimmick they have to keep themselves in power. They're a one trick pony plastic party, take away the indy battle cry, and you can't tell them apart from stereotypical Labour people.

 

UK politics is in a hell of a state, Scottish politics is a whole lot worse.......Putting a bomb under Holyrood would be the kindest thing.