Brexit (merged threads)

[George.]

^I would suggest a little differently. Yes, Shetland first, to be followed by the rest of Scotland.

It would be wrong to make a big thing regarding where the foreigners come from.

[Ghostrider]

On 21/05/2021 at 18:00, Capeesh said:

Australia free trade deal seems to be the beginning of the end for crofters in Shetland. Cheap meat imports galore! Another industry and way of life on the brink of destruction thanks to Brexit. 

Brexit by its nature needs to be considered on a 'big picture' basis. Will, or won't the country overall be 'better' off for it.

If you start going through every aspect of life, and to do Brexit justice that's what would need to be, as what the EU had become it impacted every aspect of life in some way, you're going to find probably as many 'losers' as 'winners'. Each individual 'loss' or 'win' proves nothing in and of itself.

I don't think anyone who understood what Brexit was all about every thought it would be positive for everybody and everything, or even the majority, sacrifices were inevitable. It was about whether or not it was a net gain for the nation as a whole, either immediately, or in the opportunities it opened up heading in to the future.

 

[Evil Inky]

Quote

I don't think anyone who understood what Brexit was all about every thought it would be positive for everybody and everything, or even the majority, sacrifices were inevitable.

 

David Davis, (then Brexit secretary), told the House of Commons that “there will be no downside to Brexit at all, and considerable upsides”, in October 2016.  

[Colin]

1 hour ago, Evil Inky said:

 

David Davis, (then Brexit secretary), told the House of Commons that “there will be no downside to Brexit at all, and considerable upsides”, in October 2016.  

So, David Davis was lying then ?  Who would have guessed that a politician would have been a little 'economical' with the truth ?

I wonder what we ever did for stuff before Wilson/Heath signed us up to the Common Market ?

Anyone who ever thought that getting out of the whole mess(?) without some pain 'should have taken a little more water with it..'

[Evil Inky]

1 hour ago, Colin said:

So, David Davis was lying then ?  Who would have guessed that a politician would have been a little 'economical' with the truth ?

It doesn't bother you that the guy in charge of Brexit was telling lies about Brexit to the House of Commons?

[Colin]

No, it doesn't bother me too much.  I expect ALL poiticians to lie !!!!

[George.]

^Hmmmm, feel proud of who you last voted for, then.

[Colin]

How do you know who I voted for last ?  I'll give you a clue though, it wasn't krankie's ding-a-lings.. 

Anyway, I have long ago realised that if a politician isn't outright lying, then he(she) is doing their damndest to avoid telling the truth.

[Roachmill]

Taking "all politicians lie" as read; which ones lied the most? The ones saying things would be better or worse? And, before anyone says it's a long game, would they please take a moment to think about whether they honestly see price hikes, depletion of the NHS and general American involvments being reversed once we're "back in control"... ever. Apologies for the air quotes.

[Ghostrider]

^ Price hikes occur all the time for any old excuse, in or out of the EU, always have. The NHS depletion began in the 70's while in the EU and has proceed apace until there's so little of the original left people have begun to notice more if even one little bit alters. With Little Lord Fauntleroy's ventriliquist dummy running the White House, American involvement won't be much for the next three years, the dummy don't like us much, nor the fact we have a pseudo capitalist mob in charge. Regardless the U.S. dummy and his supporting bunch of socialist freaks sticking their nose in is better than having Stalag Merkel and her lap dog One Micron's version of Socialism rolling over us.

[Colin]

I thought that politicians on both sides of the argument lied in equal measure.  Only a complete idiot would have believed more than two words that any of them spoke.  I used my personal judgement (right or wrong, who knows?) to vote the way I saw fit.

As for price hikes.  That's just 'capitalism' at work.  Not that it sits well with me as a lot of the rises are 'because we can' and not 'because we have to'.  Gas doesn't really cost any more to get out of the ground.  It doesn't have to be 'produced' as such.  Just tighten the supply and increase the price.  Oldest trick in the book.

The problem with the NHS is that it has been a political 'football' for decades.  It also suffers from a lack of any real boundaries in who, or what it treats, and because of this, it has been abused (to a degree) by patients.  It has lost it's way.

However, selling the choice bits off to the highest bidder is, imho, NOT the best way forward.  Who on earth would want an Americanised 'for profit' NHS where the choice can be, quite literally,  between a lifetime of debt, or death.  Far better to pay a little extra in taxes and keep the money grubbing parasites out. 

Yes, I know that we already have a 'for profit' medical sector where you can pay (often the same doctors etc.) for early treatment etc.  Why are these people allowed to use NHS facilities?  If you want to pay twice, go ahead, it's your choice.

 

 

[Roachmill]

I'm in a real quandary here reconciling the idea both sides fibbed equally over Brexit. Running with that notion - those lying about there being massive problems after Brexit are now being proven correct are they not?

[Colin]

Yes, in the same way that those claiming there would be no problems were also lying.

I don't think that the problems are insumountable, or long term.  Definately an immediate problem though.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Colin

[Ghostrider]

21 hours ago, Roachmill said:

I'm in a real quandary here reconciling the idea both sides fibbed equally over Brexit.

Don't consider a career in politics then. Its a game in outlying your opponent's most recent lie ad infinitum, even after it has degenerated in to total absurdity, that the participants can't see, but many in their audience do. Just like the Brexit "debate" (in its loosest possible definition) went.

Every one of them who played any part of note portrayed themself as a retarded sphincter.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Ghostrider

[Davie P]

The 'all politicians are liars' line of discussion is quite tedious, and quite frankly nonsense. I studied politics as a student, worked alongside several politicians at various levels during my career and still take a keen interest in it.

There are many politicians of great integrity, past and present, and at all levels of local and national politics, who have contributed very positively to society.

However, in all the years I have followed politics I have never seen such blatant dishonesty as that which came from, in the most part, the pro-Brexit politicians and the media outlets which amplified their jingoistic nonsense and glossed over their disregard for due process. They played to the gallery, and promised things that were obviously impossible, with apparent impunity. I feel Brexit was probably the lowest point in British politics for several generations.