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Keeping on doing the same thing repeatedly hoping for a different result is a sign of something else though.   I'm all for democracy, but if you re-run the same vote too close together that process be

Boris and his authoritarian Tory government have tried to bypass parliament twice and both times they've been found guilty of abusing their power by the highest court in the land. Thankfully in this c

^Corrrrrong again. I've just come to learn that folk like you aren't worth the time.   You eased yourself in here and have somehow managed to make a forum that was already a shallow version of itself

I think that the majority of voters, really had no idea of the complexity and level of difficulty in extricating us from the EU, or were even considering the possible negative consequences. I've got my pension, I'm all right. maybe.

Spot on. I certainly think we have a tendency to take things for granted. All too often that only becomes apparent when its either taken away from us or we see how things are done elsewhere. 

 

Ask folk to write a list of whats good and a list of whats bad about the SIC/Scottish Government/Westminster/Europe and I could almost guarantee which would be longer. 

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Genuine question.

 

There's plenty of sweeping rhetoric in the national media about 'taking back control' etc, but what specific changes do you guys hope Brexit will bring?

The Uk should be able to trade with any country it wants to without requiring permission from Brussels.

 

The UK should be able to control its own seas and borders without intervention from Europe.(That will never happen)

 

The UK definitely wants to trade with Europe but not under the ridiculous regulations imposed by Brussels,example try and buy a Madiera banana in any UK shop. 

 

Of course we want and need foreign qualified skilled workers and we want our skilled workers to have the opportunity to work abroad as well, what we do not need is an influx of unskilled workers as we already have plenty of our own . 

 

Northern Ireland already has borders between them and Eire, after all they are two separate countries, and if the EU wants any extra constrains then let them provide them at no expense to the UK.

 

If everyone gave up when the going gets tough no one would get anything done,we have to soldier on among the many unnecessary obstacles that are in our way to achieve our exit from the EU and then later negotiate a new deal with the EU that suits us in the UK.

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^......and the UK can take whatever decisions are best for the UK's indigenous industries (fishing, agriculture etc) withut EU interference, which all too often tends to be interference that *may* be for 'the good of the EU as a whole', but are bad news for the UK specifically.

 

The EU is too diverse for a 'one size fits all' to be good for all. Its a strip of land running north/south from the Med to the Arctic. Take a look at a world map, all the large land masses which 'successfully'? exist under one 'government' run east/west - Russia, the U.S. Canada, China..... Large land masses running north/south don't do so well, otherwise S. America and Africa wouldn't be such a mass of postage stamp size banana republics.

 

We've given the 'united Europe' concept a go, it didn't work very well at any time, and its working less well as time goes on, with no sign of improvement. After 45 years of trying, its long past time to hit the rewind button back to 31st December 1972 and try something different.

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I'll just leave this here....  ;-)

Cltl4jFWEAEbnun.jpg

 

 

You can't fix stupid, regardless whether they're your average Joe Schmo or a politician.

 

Anybody who didn't at least try and research and consider the answers to the above questions BEFORE voting, has nobody to blame but themselves, and no grounds to whinge after the fact.

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Wiki? Not sure. Both Strasbourg and the European commission do http://en.strasbourg-europe.eu/member-states,44987,en.html here you will see the map of the "Member states", entitled "Member States of the European Union and the Council of Europe",  and all official EU commission directives sent to members are directed to and at "Member States".  Just do a search on Member States on the EU website, you will see what I mean. But call them anything you like  :thmbsup Its a pretty mute point to me. 

 

@ John Allan

 

They are member nations, member countries but they are NOT "states".  It is not the United States of Europe, even though they try to persuade folk to accept that ideology.

 

Edit:  Wikipedia might well refer to "member states" but the EU website does not.

 

Cheers for pointing that out; I'll be honest and only looked at a few pages and it isn't worded that way in the main introduction of their website.

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This weekend many of our political leaders will attend the cenotaphs in remembrance to the many who gave their lives during the war, those brave souls obeying the countries decision and fighting for freedom.

 

 

A freedom won but slowly taken away from us by regulatory decisions from a non democratic body from Brussels representing the EU .

 

How many of our political leaders can genuinely stand at the cenotaph and show respect when they are disobeying the countries wishes by not adhering to the national vote to leave the EU.

 

Hypocrites I call them, suppose they would see themselves as conscientious objectors

Have you no shame? A disgusting attempt to hijack the centenary of 14-18 to support your own particular views. Absolutely awful!

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mikeyboy--- i have nothing to be shameful about,very close relatives of mine fought in the wars ,them and all the others who were involved get my full respect.

 

Thanks to them you and i  have had many years of relative peace.

 

But to think that 100 years later our very own politicians would act in such disrespect to our nations democracy and cause so many problems rather than work together is unbelievable.

 

This is not what our brave servicemen and women fought for.

 

We are supposed to learn from history and if anything should have been learned it must surely be the ability to work together even when we do not necessarily agree.  

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@mikeboy

 

It has nothing to do with "shame". 

 

In common with a lot of others here, I had grandfathers/grand uncles who took part in WW1 and a father and uncles who took part in WW2. 

Not one of them ever spoke of the horrors they had been through or the things they had done to others in the course of "service to their country".  In some ways, that is the "shame" as they should have shouted it long and loud at the politicians who caused the whole mess.

 

urabug is correct.  We had a referendum and the losing(?) side, instead of supporting the outcome, is doing everything it can to derail it. 

We don't have much of a democracy anyway and, we don't need/want politicians who treat the country with such contempt and ignore the will of the people. 

 

Yes, imho, they (politicians) are hypocrites.  You don't see to many of their names on memorials up and down the country do you ?

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Well this local politician was quoted in the Shetland Times this week saying the result of the referendum must be respected... maybe easy for me to say though since I am a leave voter representing a community that voted ~86% Leave  :rofl: 

In all seriousness though I think it is deplorable the way politicians and others have carried on since the vote (not to mention the downright lying in the run up to it). 

All the doom mongering and attempts at derailment by people with influence can make a bad outcome a self-fulfilling prophecy. Too many in our "political class" are too focused on advancing their own interests regardless of what is good for the nation or the common man. 

In addition, not sure if anyone else made the point but I believe NATO has as much (if not more) to do with peace in Europe since 1945 than the EU does. 

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Yes in my opinion shameful.

Remembrance Sunday a time for reflection and national mourning especially in this centenary year. This was somehow shoehorned into a half baked comment on Brexit.

Whatever freedoms you believe the Great war was fought for it is nothing to do with Brexit. Some things are above partisan politics.

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Yes in my opinion shameful.

Remembrance Sunday a time for reflection and national mourning especially in this centenary year. This was somehow shoehorned into a half baked comment on Brexit.

Whatever freedoms you believe the Great war was fought for it is nothing to do with Brexit. Some things are above partisan politics.

I don't need remembrance Sunday to remember those who gave up so much for our freedom,I am constantly aware of it thanks to the freedom i enjoy today.

 

But i know that many of those if not all who sacrificed so much  to get us that freedom would be dismayed to see the state of the UK today.

 

History and politics go hand in hand,surely it cannot be  difficult for our "learned friends"  in parliament to learn lessons from the past.

 

Brexit to gain our freedom once again has everything to do with what the great war was all about.

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Yes in my opinion shameful.

Remembrance Sunday a time for reflection and national mourning especially in this centenary year. This was somehow shoehorned into a half baked comment on Brexit.

Whatever freedoms you believe the Great war was fought for it is nothing to do with Brexit. Some things are above partisan politics.

I don't need remembrance Sunday to remember those who gave up so much for our freedom,I am constantly aware of it thanks to the freedom i enjoy today.

 

Agreed which is why I wouldn't sully that memory to make some throwaway point.

 

But i know that many of those if not all who sacrificed so much  to get us that freedom would be dismayed to see the state of the UK today.

 

How do you know that?

 

History and politics go hand in hand,surely it cannot be  difficult for our "learned friends"  in parliament to learn lessons from the past.

 

Yes learning lessons from the past is exactly why we should have closer ties with europe.

 

Brexit to gain our freedom once again has everything to do with what the great war was all about.

 

No not really explain to me what freedoms the Great war won and what freedoms are being won due to Brexit and what links the two subjects?

 

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