Brexit (merged threads)

[Ghostrider]

^ A near invisible shadow of what Shetland's fleet, and Shetland, could be enjoying if we had what's rightfully ours, everything within 200 miles/median of our coast.

[Colin]

https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2018/11/26/31404/

 

Don't know if this is the right place to put this.  No doubt someone will correct me.

 

OK, so AC has decided to vote against the brexit deal because "it is not in the national interest" and, the reasons he gives contain absolutely no detail that allows us to make our own judgements.  The only thing he tells us is that parliament is likely to reject it.

 

Personally, I have no doubt that the deal "sucks" in several areas and I am of the opinion that a "no deal" exit is better than a "bad deal" exit.

 

What really get me though is the continued call for a "peoples vote" on the issue.  I don't know what planet he has been on lately but, I seem to remember a "people's vote" a little while ago and, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't we vote to regain our independence and leave the EU ? 

He also claims that it would take to long to organise a general election but, a new referendum is a lote quicker.  I don't see how that can be, a vote is a vote. ? 

 

Maybe he (just like the SNP) wants to keep on having referendums until he gets the answer HE wants.  Then there will be silence on the issue.

 

Typical politician and, one who will never again get my vote..

[Ghostrider]

The 'people's vote' is an invention of remainers as a last ditch hope of getting at least some of it their own way, that has unfortunately grown legs and been adopted as a mantra by some politicians.

 

To me the referendum questions were straightforward, simple and unambigiuous.

 

Do you want to leave?

 

Do you want to stay?

 

It doesn't get much clearer than that. If 'leave' won (as it did), we should have commenced the process of severing ALL ties with the EU and taking with us our 1/28th of the EU's assets that are ours, as quickly as was practically possible. If 'stay' won, business continued as if the referendum had never happened.

 

There was no option on the ballot to vote for 'Lets try and leave the EU, and once we've cobbled together a deal we'll vote on it to see if we think its a good enough one, or just call the whole thing off', but that's what we're in danger of getting if the 'people's vote' fans get their way.

 

It was taken as a given when voting in the referendum that the government of the day would fight tooth and nail to exit on the best terms possible for the UK if 'leave' won. Clearly that was expecting far too much, as 18 month on and there's no sign they've even tried.

 

What I take gross exception to is the bunch of numpties sitting at the top table right now trying to sell us a deal that amounts to total capitulation and assimilation, telling us its a 'good' one. What game as they playing................ Repeat the same bull often enough and people will start to believe it, or attempting to rely on the power of stupid people in large groups. Its twenty times worse than the one we've had for 45 years, we might as well just lleave things as they've been for that 45 years. Which a cynic might well say is the main purpose of the game Westminster is playing right now.

 

We voted 'leave' unconditionally, that means take back what's ours and leave, end of. No 'ifs', no 'buts', no haggling. Just GO!

 

Our PM and her colleagues wouldn't make good poker players. In leaving we shouldn't have been seeking a 'deal; with the EU, we should have taken everything we could, and if they came running after us to seek a deal with us, and we could do one that was favourable to us, that would have been fine. Otherwise better off rid. There are 192 countries in the world in addition to us, only 27 of them in the EU. There are an estimated 7.2 Billion in the world population, only 508 Million of them are in the EU, falling to circa 443 Million if we're not included.

 

I really do not get this obsession with remainers wanting to tie themselves in to such relatively small and insular, introspective alliance, when there is the whole globe out there to do deals with and trade with on one on one terms.

[JGHR]

Repeat the same bull often enough and people will start to believe it, or attempting to rely on the power of stupid people in large groups.

That's what got us to where we are in the first place.

[George.]

An awful lot of people across Britain continue to prove that they can't spell "Democracy", never mind define it.

[JohanofNess]

To me the referendum questions were straightforward, simple and unambigiuous.

 

Do you want to leave?

 

Do you want to stay?

 

It doesn't get much clearer than that. If 'leave' won (as it did), we should have commenced the process of severing ALL ties with the EU and taking with us our 1/28th of the EU's assets that are ours, as quickly as was practically possible. If 'stay' won, business continued as if the referendum had never happened.

 

 

 

The question was very clear, simple and concise. You've taken a consequence of the vote that wasn't definite. Nobody at any point told me that I was voting for either

 

Hard Brexit

 

or

 

Nothing changing at all

 

I always understood that there would have to be a negotiation and by voting for brexit I was voting for a largely unknown future deal.

[George.]

The question was very clear, simple and concise. You've taken a consequence of the vote that wasn't definite. Nobody at any point told me that I was voting for either

Fifty-two percent voted to leave. That's definite, more people wanted out than wanted in. Of course, those that wanted to stay in have not yet stopped whinging while making statements that are in no way factual.

 

That hasn't been a problem for the remoaners, though. It appears that they continue to make farcical claims. That suggests that they are either uninformed, misinformed or - they're liars, out to get what they want in any way or form. How democratic.

[JohanofNess]

 

The question was very clear, simple and concise. You've taken a consequence of the vote that wasn't definite. Nobody at any point told me that I was voting for either

Fifty-two percent voted to leave. That's definite, more people wanted out than wanted in. Of course, those that wanted to stay in have not yet stopped whinging while making statements that are in no way factual.

 

That hasn't been a problem for the remoaners, though. It appears that they continue to make farcical claims. That suggests that they are either uninformed, misinformed or - they're liars, out to get what they want in any way or form. How democratic.

 

 

Christ George if you're going to quote someone at least make it in context. I didn't say it wasn't a definite result I said the choice of brexit didn't have definite consequences, hence the crap deal we're getting just now.

[Colin]

Does any "ordinary" person actually know what the "deal" is ? 

 

So far, all I have heard is lots of people moaning and issuing dire warnings but, so far, no detail of what we are being signed up for.

 

I have noticed that the Dutch are starting to wail a bit about loosing fisheries access.  Mabe they could move their fish processing plants over here.  After all, if 80% (so I read) of their fish comes from UK waters, it would make sense.

[Urabug]

The EU has us well and truly hooked, we are captive.

 

If we are to gain control of our own affairs we have to stand up to them just like we have done in the past ,but this not fighting with guns and ammunition putting lives at risk but with diplomacy,almost certainly at some financial cost to us all.

 

Over 45 years the EU has managed to get us in a position that we cannot easily get out of.

 

Freedom to the UK to negotiate and deal with whoever we want ,and if in the regaining of this we feel some pain so be it.

 

JC is correct for once if this draft deal is accepted by parliament,the final deal in two years time will be disastrous for the UK and in my opinion our "fishing" will be compromised for the betterment of something else,just as it is now. 

 

Lets just leave after all we are supposed to be Great Britain, or are we now a bunch of cowards quite happy to be controlled from Brussels like puppets on a string.

 

This is a "political building site " at the moment but once complete will be fantastic if done correctly. (hopefully)

[mikeyboy]

Does any "ordinary" person actually know what the "deal" is ? 

 

So far, all I have heard is lots of people moaning and issuing dire warnings but, so far, no detail of what we are being signed up for.

 

I have noticed that the Dutch are starting to wail a bit about loosing fisheries access.  Mabe they could move their fish processing plants over here.  After all, if 80% (so I read) of their fish comes from UK waters, it would make sense.

 

 

Not hard to get better informed on the withdrawal agreement

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46237012

 

I don't think the Dutch are wailing, they just have legitimate concerns.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46361999

Edited November 29, 2018 by mikeyboy

[Urabug]

Better do as we tell you 

 

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/barnier-tells-mp-future-country-stake-brexit-deal-vote-112516103.html

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

Does any "ordinary" person actually know what the "deal" is ? 

 

So far, all I have heard is lots of people moaning and issuing dire warnings but, so far, no detail of what we are being signed up for.

 

I have noticed that the Dutch are starting to wail a bit about loosing fisheries access.  Mabe they could move their fish processing plants over here.  After all, if 80% (so I read) of their fish comes from UK waters, it would make sense.

The withdrawal agreement is available online:-

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration

 

599 pages available as a PDF.

 

Amongst the waffle and the backstop stuff (which is meant to be temporary but there's no end date in it) is that we're basically agreeing to still keep EU Directives as part of our laws in areas such as environmental ... so ya know that fuel duty thingy you pay on ya lekky bill that is currently conveniently at 20%?  I think, but not 100% sure, that that is an environmental EU tax (currently 20%) so if that rate changes and is higher in the future (yes, I said future), we still pay it.  And all those other environmental 'goodies' under EU Directives - we've still got to abide by them.  FOREVER by the looks of it, because do you really think they gonna agree to let us leave?  We're agreeing still to contribute if there's a backstop thingy wotsits to pay a percentage into the European Bank and a whole other plethora of organisations.  Likewise, with goods, we have to ensure they are to EU Standards - err why can't we bring back the BS kite mark?  Will the USA, Canada, Australia and all those other countries want goods manufactured to their standards, BS standards or EU standards?  On trade; well hell, if there isn't a hard border with Ireland apparently that's an advantage trade-wise and they want this back-stop thingy.  We can only leave this agreement if all EU member countries AGREE.  Noooo, none of this I'll give ya one month or three months' notice, we'd be tied in until they decided we could toddle off on our merry way.

 

There's also a load of stuff about how we will take steps not to use security databases to which we're no longer entitled to (be too much for the EU to change the passwords then eh?) as apparently there is this super-duper intelligence/criminal/security database and OMG, we're all gonna dieeeeeee and be blown up if we can't have access to that; perish the thought that there is INTERPOL ... and info re the European Courts on how some stuff will be valid for up to four years after we leave (so if someone has a case now in the queue but it doesn't get heard in the next two years but does in say four years from now, the ruling would be valid).

 

I always thought that the idea of discussing withdrawal was so that we left in an orderly manner; not for the EU to cherry pick which bits we must keep and what not to keep.  It's an almighty mess.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Suffererof1crankymofo

[Colin]

600 pages ?  It was always going to be a lot I suppose but, just who is going to read that lot ?

 

If what you are saying is correct, then we aren't going to "exit" at all, just be treated a little differently !

 

Personally, I would tell them to "get stuffed" and take it from there.

[Evil Inky]

600 pages ?  It was always going to be a lot I suppose but, just who is going to read that lot ?

 

If what you are saying is correct, then we aren't going to "exit" at all, just be treated a little differently !

 

Personally, I would tell them to "get stuffed" and take it from there.

 

I wouldn't worry about it: May's deal doesn't stand a chance of getting through Parliament.