Brexit (merged threads)

[Ghostrider]

^ I'll ask again. What, exactly is 'EU citizenship'? Being a citizen of a member state of the EU (which isn't the same thing as 'EU citizenship') gave you the 'benefits' you've listed.

 

'EU citizenship' is a non-term, no such thing exists. Like I said, being a 'citizen' by definition means being recognised as a citizen in the laws etc of a sovereign nation.

 

The EU is neither a nation, nor is it sovereign. Its a unique bespoke alliance of a number of sovereign nations.........So by default extension nobody can be an 'EU citizen',, it is a meaningless term as no such recognised 'status' exists.

[George.]

Fishing...sold down the river...again

 

They like it if we tell the whole world that we're British.

 

Although.......

[Capeesh]

^ I'll ask again. What, exactly is 'EU citizenship'? Being a citizen of a member state of the EU (which isn't the same thing as 'EU citizenship') gave you the 'benefits' you've listed.

Yep, those 'benefits' are what I'm not happy about losing, personally I don't care what it's called, if you don't want to call it EU citizenship call it anything you want, doesn't change the fact that Brexit has taken those things away.

[NullVoid]

I see the horrible ex Tory Chancellor and Brexit supporter Nigel Lawson was denied French residency.

Good to see him being denied the EU citizenship he helped deny me and my family.

So the best part of being in the EU is not having to live in the UK?

You know you can still contact an embassy of the country you want to move to for information, look on websites advertising jobs overseas and apply for a Visa if you want to live and work there as per the rules of each nation.

You can still retire there as some jurisdictions allow residency for pensioners and younger people can become naturalized citizens as per the rules of each nation.

If you being there is viewed as having a negative effect on for example: existing jobseekers within that territory and they want to restrict who comes in that’s fine too.

So you tell me, what are the benefits of leaving???

Fishing...sold down the river...again

Pound...crashed and burned making everything from the weekly shop to heating our houses more expensive

Business...fleeing to the continent

National debt spiralling out of control meaning more cuts to our vital services, Health, Education etc

The only people to gain out of this are the rich Tory speculators, tax dodgers and business leaders that want to trample over the workers rights EU membership gave us, a return to a Dickensian nightmare.

We're a small, isolated, inward looking place now, not what I wanted for my kids.

 

 

Most of these are directly tied to the British governments domestic policy and would happen regardless of EU Membership,

We had workers rights before 1993 (When European coal and steel community became the EU)

Most of the UK has been in a state of decline before the EU vote anyway Britain is few wealthy settlements in a pool of poor postindustrial towns and cities, normally as these areas emptied out when working age people moved onto greener pastures house prices would collapse and locals would buy and entrepreneurs would come to where its cheap and try new things.

instead we have tonnes of overseas buyers hoovering up properties and blowing prices up to absurd proportions in some parts of Britain more than others and that is

in an article from 2013 "85% of homes in the capital's centre sold to overseas buyers as weak pound sees foreign interest soar"

June 2013 must be BLOODY BREXIT in 2013

This has a knock on effect for the whole UK for the remainder of the country either by those vulture investors buying houses in other parts of the country renting them out at double or triple the mortgage and siphoning that money out of the UK economy

Or

Displacing people and causing them to move to more affordable places in the UK live and work thus raising costs after they get there

If the job pays less than the rent you go for where you can have something left over after rent is paid.

 

Rentals have not been hovered up in Scotland as quickly because you must register as a landlord therefore discouraging vulture investors this is in my opinion a good thing.

But those wanting a better price are more likely to avoid negotiating with locals or recent arrivals alike because they think a higher payout from a richer buyer is imminent leading to more houses being left vacant

https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2019/06/18/high-proportion-of-long-term-empty-homes/-

But that still leaves retirement properties and internal and external migration of workers who will displace the younger generation from some communities where property interest has ballooned.

It is the policy of the UK gov to keep the Ponzi scheme going as long as possible and this is great news for earlier investors to the Ponzi scheme but a disaster for those who want to live inside the houses or obtain a house near work/family without exporting a chunk of their salary afar and paying somebody else’s mortgage too.

 

A local landlord or local authority would be a substantial upgrade since the money stays in the local area at least.

To tackle this the UK are adding a measly pissant 3% charge on overseas buyers instead of banning them like New Zealand did

https://www.ft.com/content/6fa6fe7a-5d45-11ea-8033-fa40a0d65a98

I see only one way out of this cancerous situation

Where is this crash you scaremongers keep foretelling because we need it and if we are an inward looking place now

GOOD! maybe we can start focusing on domestic policy instead of foreign policy for a change!

[Roachmill]

You've more than made your point NullVoid. No need to flog that horse.

[NullVoid]

You've more than made your point NullVoid. No need to flog that horse.

For a phoenix to be reborn it must do "something" first . . .

 

Do you agree or not?

Do you have a counterargument to my thesis that collapsing the ponzi scheme by any means necessary is desirable despite any collateral damage?

Edited January 4, 2021 by NullVoid

[Roachmill]

I do not agree that something which is dead has (or can) do anything to be reborn. That would be "silly". Even speaking metaphorically, it would be equally silly to think of the UK and it's former global domination ever returning. To wish for that is decidedly troublesome as that would be to wish for all the sharn we pulled.

 

And, yes, I have a counterargument... but I'll save my time for more fruitful endeavours like shouting at shadows, holding a reasoned debate with my left shoe and trying to get this damned chocolate teapot to work.

[NullVoid]

I do not agree that something which is dead has (or can) do anything to be reborn. That would be "silly". Even speaking metaphorically, it would be equally silly to think of the UK and it's former global domination ever returning. To wish for that is decidedly troublesome as that would be to wish for all the sharn we pulled.

 

phoenix is a metaphor for allowing a "death" of the rotten system and thus rebirth,

The end of the roman empire and collapse of its institutions was not the end of Italy its people or any of its physical land or occupied territories nor was the end of the Soviet empire the extinction of eastern Europeans within its occupied territories.

i don't mean to say rebuild the British empire when i say it is desirable to collapse the ponzi scheme and rebuild like other places

 

the British east India company was nationalized because the management style of the private British corporate overlords of India disgusted the British public to the point where the government was compelled to.

British empire provided a frontier where those looking to make a living could go and build something elewhere or make their fourtunes outside the UK

 

funny how going after corporate oligarchs has become such an unpopular idea with today's neoliberal left so long as those corporations are "woke" and increase GDP albeit lowering wages in the process.

 

I don't believe in trickle down economics and prefer to address the obstacles to things being built from the ground up instead of praying to o holy job creators form afar.

 

real estate market is more manipulated than UK coal was back at its peak if coal prices weren't heavily subsidized and it was sold at cost the society would adjust to either using new fuels or becoming more cost effective in extraction instead the rest of the taxpayers had to pump money into this instead of spending it on infrastructure or anything else relay other businesses not shouldering the burden of keeping the coal price down without affecting wages.

 

instead just let it balloon until it was popped similar to the over inflation of land prices

 

overseas nonresident buyers, landlords renting buy to lets to those on the dole and a left eager to bring in new tenants from the third world because (#refugeeswelcome) to deplete housing stock enrich oligarchs all at taxpayer expense and all this regardless of if they undercut existing workers or not

 

wise investment Tony Blair made by warmongering and displacing people it pays lots of dividends to the neoliberal establishment

 

I have a counterargument... but I'll save my time for more fruitful endeavours like shouting at shadows, holding a reasoned debate with my left shoe and trying to get this damned chocolate teapot to work.

 

You are Very confident that you have better ideas yet very shy in showing them or exposing them to scrutiny,

Below is what it looks like you said.

 

 

 

There is strong evidence i dont have it with me but strong evidence that i am correct!

Edited January 4, 2021 by NullVoid

[Roachmill]

^Corrrrrong again. I've just come to learn that folk like you aren't worth the time.

 

You eased yourself in here and have somehow managed to make a forum that was already a shallow version of itself somewhere even less worthy of folks time. Bravo. But I'm sure you'll take that as some form of affirmation of your set-in-stone and over-inflated "views" somehow being validated. Best of luck with that!

[Colin]

I wonder how many folk do not post here is case NulVoid decides to crap on everything by responding with the usuan barrage of garbage ?

 

In fairness, there may just be one or two points of interest buried in there somewhere, but fom my own personal position, I prefer to skip his/her/it's entire post.  Once, that is, after I have managed to scroll past a series of awful graphics.

NB;  Pretty pictures do not prove anything.  Try reasoned argument instead. If I wanted to see pictures, I would buy The Beano...

. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Colin

[Rasmie]

trying too hard to be intellectual I guess. perhaps educated but lacks basic communication skills

[George.]

May well be trying too hard to be intellectual, but also talks nonsense.

[NullVoid]

 But I'm sure you'll take that as some form of affirmation of your set-in-stone and over-inflated "views" somehow being validated. Best of luck with that!

My views may or may not be set in stone but you have not presented an alternative viewpoint for comparison,

If you had a persuasive argument i may be inclined to reconsider my views but i would still be inclined to scrutinize to see if it is correct.

 

Effects of Brexit supposedly include UK diminishing as a "financial power"  this is taken for granted to be a bad thing but is that so?

Iceland had a bank collapse and they have a higher standard of living and income than the majority of the UK or most of the world for that matter.

 

Decline of the pound only shows that ditching the gold standard was a mistake and collapse bad in the short term potentially being good in the long term thing as the policies of the central bank and the larger banks lead to the enrichment of earlier investors and impoverishing of those who either have less or started later hence Ponzi.

 

Other policies besides poverty caused by this such as alimony and gold diggers exploiting a system designed to separate shared property and avoid the other partner becoming destitute have prevented risk averse from forming families to a point where deaths outnumbered births even BEFORE the "pandemic" lack of births is cited as a reason we supposedly need the EU to replenish the workforce though we have less internal migration for reason mentioned above.

 

you may see it as nonsense and i hear disapproval loud and clear but if you don't like what i said i challenge you prove me wrong and should you succeed and change my mind that would be fine with me.

 

before i finish i have a question that i think is of much greater importance,

In the west are we as a society less willing or capable to engage with or challenge ideas that we don't like than ever before?

it seems that more than ever the choice of ideas has become more narrow and people are even pushing for laws to protect themselves from alternative views at this point.

[George.]

^Functionally illiterate balloon, proudly blethering sh*te.

 

No doubt in rather prompt reply, pomposity will shout loud and clear.

Edited January 5, 2021 by George.

[Ghostrider]

 

^ I'll ask again. What, exactly is 'EU citizenship'? Being a citizen of a member state of the EU (which isn't the same thing as 'EU citizenship') gave you the 'benefits' you've listed.

Yep, those 'benefits' are what I'm not happy about losing, personally I don't care what it's called, if you don't want to call it EU citizenship call it anything you want, doesn't change the fact that Brexit has taken those things away.

 

If you want folk reading your post to understand that, it helps to use accurate terminology, otherwise your point is lost.

 

If you 'don't care what it's called' and use a term you choose to describe it, only you can know for sure what exactly it is you're talking about.