Brexit (merged threads)

[Davie P]

On 21/09/2021 at 09:59, Roachmill said:

I'm in a real quandary here reconciling the idea both sides fibbed equally over Brexit. Running with that notion - those lying about there being massive problems after Brexit are now being proven correct are they not?

The fundamental challenge the Remain side was that their only option was to try to point out the benefits of the status quo whilst preaching caution - never the 'sexy' option - whilst the Leave had the benefit of being able to paint pictures of a multiple different futures in which everyone's lives would be better.

Remain meant more of the same, whilst Leave was a hotchpotch of scenarios and promises with little detail to back any of up - Leave just had to persuade people that at least one of these competing scenarios would benefit them (from my estimation, there was at least 6 or 7 fundamentally different scenarios that came under the umbrella of 'Brexit')

Edited September 22, 2021 by Davie P

[George.]

^Yes, Remain would have meant more of the same while Leave would be fair to consider as a democratical decision.

Never forget just how democratically the Common Market, the E.E.C, the E.C, the E.U. ad infinitum were inflicted upon us regardless of the fact that we are regularly told, as we have been for decades, that we live in a democracy.

A democracy where we can do no more than what we are told, hence the E.U.

[Davie P]

Are we going over this once more George? 

How were the "Common Market, the E.E.C, the E.C, the E.U." "inflicted" upon us, and which parts of the British democratic system do you think are undemocratic?

Of all the many times you've posted the same thing over the years, I can't recall you ever backing it up.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Davie P

[Capeesh]

Empty supermarket shelves and soaring gas and electricity prices. Never saw that printed on the side of the big red Brexit bus.

Even if we end up having to eat cabbage soup in our freezing cold houses under candlelight I’m sure there will still be Brexit voters telling us it was all a brilliant idea. 

[Capeesh]

If the return of the blue passport isn’t  enough to persuade us they’re even talking about bringing back imperial measurements. 
Pity we won’t be able to afford to go anywhere and if your looking for a quarter pound of sherbet lemons I’m afraid they’re all out, not enough lorry drivers and the cost of a container load of Spanish sherbet lemons has tripled 

 

[Ghostrider]

^ What does Brexit have to do with fuel or food? The UK has gas, oil, coal and if worst comes to worst, still some trees, we produce most commonly consumed meats and a whole plethora of vegetables, and fish  And we managed to be self-sufficient in the the last time we had a little spat with Continentals.....

Any shortage of any of it is mismanagement by the fools in charge.

Of course, if you wanna eat nothing but unidentifiable, unpronouncable, inedible weird foreign dishes, that probably is a different matter.

Boris only got the job because he was the only fool stupid enough to take it on, the rest didn't even have the balls to try. Miracles were not expected, and we have not been disappointed.....

As the saying goes, 'You can lead a horse to water.......'Or in the case of Brexit, you can lead politicians to opportunities, but when you only have a very sorry looking bunch available to work with, what they do with them is unlikely to rank above 'poorly'.

If Brexit doesn't work, its the fault of the politicians who made it that way, Brexit in and of itself has no pre-determined course or consequences, it needs someone else to drive its every move. So if the French snails are turning up sour, or the Spanish pears are all mouldly, shout at the politicians, hang them from the yard arm, feed them to the lions along with a few christians, whatever. Its their doing, their's and nobody or nothing else's.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Ghostrider

[Evil Inky]

1 hour ago, Ghostrider said:

^ Brexit in and of itself has no pre-determined course or consequences, it needs someone else to drive its every move. 

One consequence would be leaving the EU, surely, or would you have been prepared to be flexible on that point?

[Roachmill]

14 hours ago, Davie P said:

The fundamental challenge the Remain side was that their only option was to try to point out the benefits of the status quo whilst preaching caution - never the 'sexy' option - whilst the Leave had the benefit of being able to paint pictures of a multiple different futures in which everyone's lives would be better.

Remain meant more of the same, whilst Leave was a hotchpotch of scenarios and promises with little detail to back any of up - Leave just had to persuade people that at least one of these competing scenarios would benefit them (from my estimation, there was at least 6 or 7 fundamentally different scenarios that came under the umbrella of 'Brexit')

And it's not like those pushing for Brexit had a good record (I'm being kind here) of delivering on their past promises either; yet they got their way. They remain in power, have made stacks of cash and don't look to be stopping any more of that any time soon.

It's all well and good saying if whoever is in charge cock things up they'll get voted out... but that's completely ignoring the reality of who those people are, who they're controlled by and their control of the media with the ability to destroy any and all opposition. But enough folk jumped on the relevant hook that fitted with what they wanted and got them over the line. 

[Roachmill]

2 hours ago, Ghostrider said:

Its their doing, their's and nobody or nothing else's.

I would strongly disagree with that; they were voted in to power. It's a bit like handing a set of keys to a well known drunk staggering towards their car and then blaming them when they crash.

[George.]

17 hours ago, Davie P said:

Are we going over this once more George? 

How were the "Common Market, the E.E.C, the E.C, the E.U." "inflicted" upon us, and which parts of the British democratic system do you think are undemocratic?

Of all the many times you've posted the same thing over the years, I can't recall you ever backing it up.

As I remember, Davie, the Common Market was inflicted upon us by Ted Heath, and then he asked for our opinion. Can you call that in any way democratic?

It goes on and on, though. Remember what Westminster did with the North Sea marine border in 1999?

[Evil Inky]

14 minutes ago, George. said:

As I remember, Davie, the Common Market was inflicted upon us by Ted Heath, and then he asked for our opinion. Can you call that in any way democratic?

Ted Heath was democratically elected: he didn't seize power in a coup, you know.

[George.]

^But he didn't tell us what he was going to do, did he. Very masked IMHO.

[Evil Inky]

1 hour ago, George. said:

^But he didn't tell us what he was going to do, did he. Very masked IMHO.

He did. This is a quote from the Conservative Party manifesto for the 1970 election: 

Quote

If we can negotiate the right terms, we believe that it would be in the long-term interest of the British people for Britain to join the European Economic Community, and that it would make a major contribution to both the prosperity and the security of our country. The opportunities are immense. Economic growth and a higher standard of living would result from having a larger market.

 

[George.]

^Ah, I was never aware of this so thank you. Now I need to look a bit deeper.

[Rasmie]

I seem to remember a referendum on joining the Common Market. I think Shetland was one of the few places that voted against! Even my Up tally ho squad had a skit about it. Edwards Economic Cock-up. But referendums aren’t democratic. IMHO