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Pensioners fuming over government ‘theft’


Pension age  

20 members have voted

  1. 1. Should men and women have the same pension age?

    • Yes
    • No

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One thing not mentioned so far regarding women doing ‘mens jobs’ is the lovely old closed shop. You could have been the worlds best at a job, but unless you were a man in the Union... forget it! This lasted well into the late 80s and probably beyond. Bigmouth take note.. it wasn't that woman didn't want to work in ‘hard’ jobs it was because they were not allowed to. Women also had to retire at 60 there was absolutely no way an employer would keep you after that. Please do not view woman's pension woes through modern eyes, we really did have very little choice in the first half of our working lives, and this impacted on our work choices later, given that the vast majority of us looked after house and children and so only worked part time.. child care being almost non existent in the 70s and 80s. That is why the retirement change is unfair, they should have had a time scale that gave people time plan.. but hey! Its only a few old women and who cares what they think!

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'Mofo, I don't see how I am being misogynistic. I want women to have equality. I use the terms ladies and women interchangeably. I have previously been told off for addressing a roomful of the female of the species with a smile and a cheery "good morning ladies". Feral feminists is a term aimed at those bile-filled men-hating women. The sort that say all men are rapists, and other such crap.


Yes, women tend to earn less, and that is because of the poor choices they make, avoiding STEM subjects at school for easier options. Don't want to hold down a job? Just hatch a baby for years of coffee mornings with your mates, then look surprised when the men at work, those career-minded fellows, got promoted. Or you can do what my ex-wife has done, and work hard, get some qualifications and work for yourself. She lives in a large house, has nice holidays and drives smart cars. Her two offspring are both successful and doing well. A woman might choose instead to work in a nice warm office, typing up notes, working 9-5, whilst her husband finds employment in tough work, out in the elements. She can hardly complain that he earns more. Or perhaps he got an indoor job too, showed career commitment and moved up in the system.


Women don't need to look after the kids, the man can do it equally as well. If a couple want a more comfortable lifestyle, the one who can earn the most needs to be the one who goes out to earn the crust. The other works hours that fit around the offspring.


Childcare seems to cost a great deal due to the low wage economy. Only the well-paid can afford it.


It's not only women on part-time, short term contracts. I have done a fair few of them myself. I have also done casual work, truck driving and taxi driving, where if the wheels aren't turning, you're not earning.


The other large cost in most people's lives are those of accommodation. The parasitic classes are creating an underclass of people who are being screwed in the private rented sector, and it tends to be younger people who are being hammered the most. The poor are getting poorer. They somehow can afford to pay the mortgages of the better off, but can't afford to pay their own.


Despite legislation, there's still employers who won't employ men not born in Shetland, or who live on a council estate, or are black, or are ex-offenders, or not their cousin, and 101 other reasons. It's not just women that are discriminated against, but they do like to play the victim most often.


Women are at a disadvantage compared to men because of their poor choices, their pension contributions are less, their pension pot smaller, so they should work longer than men to make up for their poor choices, especially as on the whole they live longer.


Women are so often advantaged in other ways in life. I have already discussed men awarded custodial sentences where women are given non-custodial sentences, support services for women without similar support services for men, the assumption that custody of children will be best with the mother, but the one that aggravates me the most is 'positive discrimination'. A woman getting a job, or a place on a women-only shortlist because of her sex. If I was an employer I would want the best person for the job regardless of sex. We just end up with inferior people in the top jobs. The cream will always rise to the top, some by the wealth of their family, and others by sheer hard work and determination.

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@ Davie P - yup, here's an article on it:-




"Re: "things can go back to how they were" - if we leave the EU I sincerely hope we don't return to the gender equality attitudes of the 1970s!" - The Equal Pay Act 1970 came in prior to us joining the common market, albeit was updated with 2010 legislation.  If anything, it demonstrates that we are capable of passing legislation without the interference of the EU.

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^ The E.U. directive, re 1978, tends to suggest just how democratic it is. Very Tony Tajani - nowhere near democracy, and no chance of spelling it.


Why I see so many Spanish fishing boats in St. Magnus bay I don't know, but that's the democracy that you get inflicted upon you - whether you want it or not. Ask Anthony Eden, he'll no doubt lie about what he did in 1957. Very democratic though.


What is this mysterious thing Anthony Eden did in 1957 that you won't tell us about? You've been hinting at it for weeks! In the Brexit thread, we established that he didn't take us into the EU in 1957, so what other dastardly deed did he commit?


There's no much chance of taking up your suggestion of asking him either seeing as he died in 1977.


P.S. have you read the EU directive you're commenting on, or are you passing judgement from a position of ignorance?

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@Big Mouth - You don't see that you're being misogynistic cos you can't see things from a woman's perspective.  You're demeaning feminists' arguments by your catty terminology and despite comments regarding addressing women as ladies, here you are, doing it again.

You are talking crap; many women did NOT get the choice regarding subject choice at school, myself included.  I couldn't do metalwork or woodwork because the way the lessons table was created meant that those subjects clashed with compulsory subjects (English/Mathematics).  You obviously aren't familiar with cold draughty offices either and yet again, you're demeaning those qualifications often held by women, such as diplomas in typing, shorthand, audio, etc.  Incidentally, I did work with a male PA once and he DID earn more than the female PAs despite having less qualifications and a lower typing speed.

You are mistaken if you think women get shorter prison sentences compared to men.  Women are more likely to be imprisoned for shoplifting offences (say of food) compared to men and are more likely to be imprisoned for first offences for violent offences as judges/sheriffs deem their behaviour unbecoming for their gender (gosh, they ain't all ladylike).  Want statistics?  If I mind right from my study days and doing an assignment on feminist jurisprudence, there were plenty of statistics and examples given by Helena Kennedy in her book, "Eve was Shamed:  How British Justice is Failing Women".  I'm sure female barristers and QCs will be delighted to hear that the reason they haven't been appointed as judges is because of the poor choices they have made.  Yeah, right (NOT!)

I think you are deliberately trolling.

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@Suffererof1crankymofo - I've just finished reading the same article!


re:  "it demonstrates that we are capable of passing legislation without the interference of the EU."


I quite agree. And I think the principles of gender equality are more universal that just what the EU committed to paper.


In this instance, I think the UK government haven't handled the situation at all well. They've known the equalisation of pension age has been coming for 40+ years but don't seem to have made many meaningful changes other than knock womens' pension age back with a big kick. A more graduated increase would likely have been a better solution

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As sukibind mentions, there were closed shops, and as you mention ‘mofo, kids at school may have not had the choices which the kids have today, but, and according to sukibind, the closed shop was a thing of the 70s and perhaps 80s. 1989 is now thirty years ago. Every day has been an opportunity to go out and seek change, to get educated, or for less academic, qualified in some discipline. From these daily opportunities you would expect to see at least a couple of women on the roof of the new Hjaltland development, with a nail gun in rain and high winds, earning better money. Not a single one. It's not that women can't get these jobs, they would rather sit in a warm office, where, probably, EU rules guarantee them a decent quality swivel chair, a non reflective desk at a guaranteed minimum temperature.


I can see it from the perspective of a woman, have a child, go out to coffee mornings, be in control of your life. Compare this to working in a factory or sitting in an office, clocking in and out, working at someone else's pace and bidding, in some dead end job, with poor remuneration, there's no comparison. Once you have had one kid, why not have another. I would be doing the same if I had the equipment. It would be folly though as women are finding out. I have literally heard women say, I don't want to go back to work, so I am having another child. Of course it is easier for the misandrists amongst us to claim misogyny in men who won’t cave in to their warped worldview.


Feminism is proving poisonous for females. I hear so many women say that they want nothing to do with it. I also hear many men from my son's generation say that it really isn’t worth getting involved with a woman in a long term relationship. There are just too many downsides, and very few advantages.


Yet more bias in favour of women was mentioned on the news tonight. Reducing the number of custodial sentences for women in cases of non-violent offences. No mention of the same privilege for men of course. Apparently custodial sentences for women affects child rearing, so if you are a male criminal with a kid, tough, but as a woman criminal you’ll probably get a tag to wear.


It wasn’t until my late twenties that I got to work with women. When the manager recruiting me asked me how I felt about working with women, I told him that I was really looking forward to it. He looked at me pityingly and told me I wouldn’t have that opinion for long. He was absolutely right. I came to the conclusion that they couldn’t have possibly rounded up whole county’s most high maintenance women and put them in my factory, but they somehow managed to prove me wrong. It was my job to Co-ordinate the different parts of the environment and the people in it. Most of these women were older than me, but they behaved like children, always wanting their work to take precedence, throwing tantrums if they couldn’t get their own way. It was hell. When I spoke to the manager about it he told me this is why the last person left. They could not hold onto anyone in this role. I stuck it for two years before I got a promotion.


As far as your PA was concerned, there was more to him than typing, I can be sure of that. If you were paying him more it was because he was worth it.

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I forgot to mention that the female barristers and QCs are likely to have been well paid through their careers. They are likely to be able to retire if they wish at 60 or perhaps earlier, irrespective of the state retirement age. They're not judges because they either didn’t want the added responsibilities, were happy with their achievements or just not good enough.


Women often seem to think that they have an entitlement to the best of everything in working life, whilst avoiding the bad stuff. Just look at Prince Harry's charity for injured soldiers. Those soldiers, with missing limbs, fitted with prosthetics paraded to make Harry look like one of the lads. Not one of those soldiers was a female. I don't want female soldiers to be maimed in our constant wars, but parade a few of them in front of the public and there would be an outrage. Someone might suddenly give some thought to the number of young men maimed in battle so that the likes of Tony Blair’s son will never see action in a war zone, or any other politician come to that. Someone might finally figure it out that men are as valuable as women.


I love the way that you cherry pick the data to suit your argument - more women get arrested stealing food. You could have said more women end up in court being prosecuted for not having a BBC TV licence. There's more chance of that as they are likely to be the ones sat at homes, kids at school, no man in their life, watching daytime TV, building up an argument that they are hard done by and will get a smaller pension. Or they could go out and do something with their lives.


I will again draw your attention to the female judge, who said to the female defendant, if you were a man I would be sending you to prison for this. You talk about bias in the legal system. Look no further. And where the jail system fails women, men are getting it worse. Look at HMP Bristol. Riddled with vermin for a start.

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A reminder....

  • be courteous to each other
  • stay on topic (we've had to split Brexit off from several other topics recently)
  • post links to news stories and/or statistics that are being used to back up opinions
  • remember that individual instances and/or personal experiences of something do not in themselves constitute a broad trend
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You don't appear to have the foggiest idea as to what being a mother is like if you think it mainly consists of coffee mornings and wanting to have another sprog.  I really can't be bothered to respond to any other points you make within your comments, past and future, with the exception of this:-

"As far as your PA was concerned, there was more to him than typing, I can be sure of that. If you were paying him more it was because he was worth it."

Of course there is more to a PA role than typing, I merely gave an example of just one part of the role where his skills weren't on par with those of his female colleagues'.  No, he wasn't worth more; he was very embarrassed that he had been told on more than one occasion that he had been employed because his male bosses liked the 'prestige'/'novelty factor' of having a male PA.

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Women wanted to have equal pay and conditions with men,so it was not surprising that the pension age would change also.


Someone please explain how this should have been done ! 


It all seems a very unfair to me, but I cannot see what other  could have been done to "bridge the gap" between male and female pensions without causing some grief .


I still think a squad of able bodied men would be more productive in many tasks ,than a similar squad of women,but only because of the difference in there masculinity 

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Urabug.. Perhaps a more gradual phasing in would have been better. Its the time scale that is the problem, not the equalising of retirement age.


Bigmouth.. despite your protestations I personally think you have genuine problem with women. Maybe you should re read your posts, Worryingly, dislike of women shouts out in each and every one. It is for this reason that I will not respond to your rambling posts.

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