Shattered Double Glazing Unit

[Ghostrider]

I'd suspect any kind of claim against anyone involved would go down the road of them saying 'something must have hit it' and they're not liable, and the probable cost and hassle of getting the glass expertly examined to prove neglilence far ouyweighs just buying and fitting a replacement.

 

Not how things are supposed to go, but how all too often they do.....

[Middlin]

IGU could there be any possibility of any structural movement of the window frame, which could cause stress to be applied to one corner of the glass, resulting in the glass shattering, particularly if the glass was tight in the frame. I was aware of something similar happening due to bad blocks resulting in the window dropping slightly on one side.

[IGU]

Thanks for that Ghostrider.

I would have to agree with you as to what outcome may develop if one decided to try & claim against someone involved and no one would care very much about one’s honesty or integrity at that stage.

In this case buying and fitting replacement glazing may cost (estimated) +/- £1000.

To have the glass examined by an expert may cost (estimated) +/- £500 if the glass sits in situ and (estimated) +/- £750 if the glass is in pieces.

However if one did decide to go down the legal pathway and was confronted with ‘something must have hit it ’ so they’re not liable, surely the onus to prove or disprove that statement simply doesn’t just fall on the consumer?

 

Once again I would have to agree with your statement

“Not how things are supposed to go, but how all too often they do…..”

 

So it may be time to try out the system that’s in place said to be for the consumer’s protection and if it reaches the ‘something must have hit it’ scenario which is then legally accepted put a claim into the hoose insurance on that grounds?

[IGU]

Thanks Middlin.

 

There are no obvious signs of any structural movement of the new window frame and the frame still sits presumably as level as the day it was first placed there.

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

3 years is pretty short for double-glazing;depending upon the type of frame the average warranty/guarantee seems to be 10 years or lifetime.  Not being funny, but have you dug out the paperwork or just taken the word of those who fitted the windows?

Edited May 29, 2019 by Suffererof1crankymofo

[IGU]

Weel Suffererof1crankymofo:

 

Our double-glazing is fitted within wooden frames.

The contractor/builder who fitted the entire unit was asked about their warranty but he said he knew nothing about that so he suggested we ask the supplier/distributor.

We asked the supplier/distributor and he said we won’t get any warranty on them because they were approximately 3yrs old.

So we obtained the details of the main supplier and they said that they don’t deal directly with the public consumer only the trade.

However, although normally their glazing unit’s warranty is 5yrs, this only covers the glazing unit’s seals and any agreement on that is with them & the purchaser/trade.

I also obtained the name of the glass manufacturer and contacted them but they just directed me straight back to their main supplier.

 

With double-glazing (it appears) you may think you are warranty covered for all events but most warranties only cover the glazing unit’s seals.

I would also think a 10 year or lifetime warranty/guarantee is really quite good (even possibly unique) for such seal cover but if your warranty/guarantee actually covers any more than that, I think we'd all love to know where your units came from?

 

On saying all that I have found a company who has suggested if one is concerned about Nickel Sulphide Inclusions, that they should consider their ‘Heat Soaked’ glazing.

‘Heat Soaked’ being some additional & more expensive process on ‘Toughened Glass’, this company offers a two year Nickel Sulphide Inclusion warranty.

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

@ IGU

 

I work for London surveyors.

 

Have you checked with FENSA?

 

Like everything else, there's always conditions as to what is covered by a warranty and what isn't.  10 years isn't uncommon depending upon the type of frame, UPVC, etc.

[IGU]

Thank you for that Suffererof1crankmofo

 

Online it says:

 

"Installations in Scotland and Northern Ireland:

FENSA applies to the replacement windows and doors to the Building Regulations for England and Wales. The Building Regulations and compliance requirements are different for Scotland and Northern Ireland."

 

Can anybody enlighten us in more detail on the Scottish equivalent Building Regulations or offer a link to such information? 

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

@IGU

 

My apologies, I often forget that such organisations aren't necessarily UK-wide, very sorry.

 

Scot.Gov. website has info on Building Regulations, Warrants, etc.  A lot of it suggests you go back to your local authority's planning dept. though:

 

https://www.mygov.scot/building-regulations/

[Hobbiniho]

the building regs wont have any effect on the warranty of the windows, the building regs are only worried about u value, ventilation requirements, emergency escape requirements and location of safety glass etc.

 

am i right in thinking that you purchased the windows from the supplier then got some one different to fit them? what make are the windows?

 

for example nordan offer a 10 year warranty although with a massive list of exclusions, maybe you arent shouting loud enough and need to be more assertive that you are not just going to back down, although i think you will have a hard time proving the cause of the breakage.

[IGU]

Suffererof1crankymofo:

Thanks for the link, unfortunately 'Hobbiniho' doesn't think the Building Regulation will be all that beneficial e.g. for the warranty?

 

Hobbiniho:

Thanks for your input!

The contractor/builder who fitted the windows, also ordered them and arranged for their payment i.e. so we in fact only have one contract & one point of contact.

The wooden frame supplier/glazing unit distributor, the main glazing unit supplier & the glass manufacturer have only been approached to try & obtain warranty/guarantee information and see if there is some kind of customer service support in existence towards any kind of replacement i.e. due to the issue's rare occurrence (to date only a quote for replacement has been received).

These are locally made windows with BS/EN 1250 Glazing Units (said to be Thermally Toughened Soda Lime Silicate Safety Glass), the Glass was manufactured by Saint Gobain.

 

Sadly not Nordan windows which is clearly the way to go with 10 year warranty, 'although with a massive list of exclusions' & its disapproval by certain local businesses.

[IGU]

I found the following on another forum that was about rented accommodation, it was dated 2017 but sadly the thread has since been closed:

 

"I had the internal window of a secondary glazed window spontaneously break a few months ago. That too was caused by a nickel sulphide inclusion and it was replaced by the window company as they agreed it was a latent fault. The landlord should be dealing with it with the manufacturer but if they refuse you have to consider how far you want to fight it."

•  

[IGU]

Although that forum's thread had been closed, I decided to try contact with the contributor and see if I could find out a little more, not long afterwards I received the following reply:

 

"The window was by Selectaglaze. I was lucky because I live in a Housing Association property. It had just been refurbished including the windows and I was able to speak to the builder in charge and he sorted it for me, dealing with the company who were still selling him windows for the rest of the street to be refurbished. You may have to threaten court action."    

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

I forgot to ask something but what size is the window?  £1,000 plus VAT seems a tad steep for replacement glazing (There was a recent court case being listed and the compensation/cost for replacement was report as being something like £200 to £300; granted, I think that was a council property and no idea if the window is smaller but still ...) so you might want to consider getting others to quote for the replacement but that might affect the (not a lot of good) warranty/guarantee.  Just a thought.

[IGU]

Good to hear from you again Suffererof1crankymofo,

 

The  estimated cost of +/-£1000 was given because:

 

The original window was suspected to be 6mm glass outside & 4mm inside? 

A quote which has already been supplied for its replacement is for a 6mm both sides glazing unit and is in excess of £560 including its VAT but this quote has not allowed for any 'Heat Soaked' Toughened Glass nor for the work of removing & replacing those glazing units.

 

The exact size of the 'shattered' glazing unit hasn't actually been established but if the 1400mm x 1500mm roughly taken is any kind of clue, that has in fact already been utilised for another quote and this has been given as £378 including VAT.

The only problem is, its currently unknown if that was for 6mm x 4mm/6mm x 6mm glass, Toughened Safety or 'Heat Soaked'.

 

I'm quite sure billing won't be much shy of the estimated +/- £1000 if the quote caters for:

6mm x 6mm Safety Glass

Heat Soaked Toughened 

Removal & replacement 

 

As another small point the following link supports a glazing glass guide table:

 

https://www.glasssystems.co.uk/downloads/ltd/DAS%20Glass%20Systems%20Limited%20Sizes.pdf

 

On this guide our window/glazing unit size places it in the green category i.e. must be 6mm Glass but of course its only a guide!