Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[Carlos]

I have a question.

Disregarding the CO2 issue entirely (to me, it's not important) and focusing on the economic one, how does anyone here suppose shetland would be able to maintain present living standards unless we invest in something like this to bring in new jobs as the oil and gas being brought ashore at sullom voe slowly dwindles?

This is an excellent question. I agree that the CO2 issue is irrelevant, what is needed is some real financial information. It is all very well to argue that "well, SSE would not invest if it wasn't viable" but what I would like to see are some numbers which prove there will be a decent financial return for Shetland. So far, there has been nothing, as far as I am aware?

And if it comes down to anything close to a referendum of the Shetland public then this is where it passes or fails - purely on how convinced people are that it is a good deal for us.

20% of people may have strong philosophical views for, and 20% against, but the 60% in the middle are waiting to see what money is involved.....

[ArabiaTerra]

Maybe I can help with the SVT Power Station issue. Obviously, I cannot divulge anything commenrial so I'll stick to what is in the public domain! The arrangement at SVT Power Station goes like this; there are 4 x 25MW Gas Turbines of which usually only 2 are synchronised at any one time to produce enough power for the entire SVT and also to allow an export of around 12MW to the Shetland Grid. The Power Station is operated and maintained by a company that is independent from BP on an Ops and Maintenance contract. BP supply the Power Station with either high quality West of Shetland gas, East of Shetland gas and diesel to ensure continuity of supply. SVT cannot import power from the Shetland grid, it can only be exported to the Shetland grid hence the large amount of redundancy built into the number of installed generators i.e. two in service, one on standby and one down for maintence. BP provide the gas to the power station and get paid a contract price from SSE; the independent company that run the Power Station make nothing from the agreement between BP/SSE. The Power Station, however, is directly responsible to SEPA for the emission reporting.

Cheers for that, Colliedogs. It's been a while since I worked there. (There were five turbines when I was there.) It makes sense that they wouldn't want to go any lower than 4 turbines.

 

[skaterboy]

yes AT a meter number every electric meter has a number identifying its type and location without this number you will only get a guide price for your electric.

same company same type of meter, one south and one here you will pay more here.

FACT AT

[ArabiaTerra]

Please provide some evidence fro this, skaterboy. Otherwise why should I believe it.

[skaterboy]

short of inviting you to my home while I sign up for a new electric company and then taking you down the road while I sign up for the same electric company on the same deal there then how other can I meet your need for absolute proof.

[Carlos]

MPAN (Meter Point Administration Number) apparently

http://www.energylinx.co.uk/mpan.htm

 

Line Loss Factor (LLF) would seem to be one thing that might lead to different costs for different areas? Strictly that would seem to be an extra cost factor rather than a difference in price per unit for the electricity, but the end result is much the same maybe?

The Line Loss Factor code stipulates the expected costs the distribution company will charge the supplier for using the cables and network in your region. This Line Loss Factor code will also indicate to the electricity supplier the potential charges incurred, due to loss of energy incurred whilst getting the electricity supplier to your meter.

[KTL]

And if it comes down to anything close to a referendum of the Shetland public then this is where it passes or fails - purely on how convinced people are that it is a good deal for us.

20% of people may have strong philosophical views for, and 20% against, but the 60% in the middle are waiting to see what money is involved.....

I don't know where you picked up these numbers from Carlos, but the only real numbers available are the Shetland Times poll, and SIC windfarm community meetings. The average result from the SIC meetings was 75% opposing the Viking Energy planning application, 21% supporting. I think this is fairly clear what folk think.

Now admittedly not many folk will attend a meeting to say they have no opinion either way. In any election we don't call it null and void if we get less than 50% turnout. In a simple for or against vote, the don't knows don't count. On the other hand the Viking Energy support group did organise its members to attend, and all spoke at great length at each meeting, and the best they could come up with was 21% support.

 

It is no surprise that Viking Energy pulled their planning application soon after the SIC community meetings in in Sep/ Oct 2009. Viking Energy said an "addendum" would be appearing "at the turn of the year". It's nearly July, and no sign of it. So much for keeping to deadlines!

 

For further confirmation of real numbers, there were 2544 representations to the planning application, 2026 were objecting and 518 were in support. That's roughly 80% for and 20% against. In terms of sample size this is far bigger than either the Shetland Times poll or the SIC community meetings.

 

A glaring ommission from the 2544 representations is the SIC. To date SIC councillors still haven't discussed the Vikign Energy planning application. Every other statutory body from SNH to SEPA have responded, but the SIC have still to discuss it. A disgrace to local government and democracy.

[Stirrer]

And if it comes down to anything close to a referendum of the Shetland public then this is where it passes or fails - purely on how convinced people are that it is a good deal for us.

20% of people may have strong philosophical views for, and 20% against, but the 60% in the middle are waiting to see what money is involved.....

I don't know where you picked up these numbers from Carlos, but the only real numbers available are the Shetland Times poll, and SIC windfarm community meetings. The average result from the SIC meetings was 75% opposing the Viking Energy planning application, 21% supporting. I think this is fairly clear what folk think.

Now admittedly not many folk will attend a meeting to say they have no opinion either way. In any election we don't call it null and void if we get less than 50% turnout. In a simple for or against vote, the don't knows don't count. On the other hand the Viking Energy support group did organise its members to attend, and all spoke at great length at each meeting, and the best they could come up with was 21% support.

 

It is no surprise that Viking Energy pulled their planning application soon after the SIC community meetings in in Sep/ Oct 2009. Viking Energy said an "addendum" would be appearing "at the turn of the year". It's nearly July, and no sign of it. So much for keeping to deadlines!

 

For further confirmation of real numbers, there were 2544 representations to the planning application, 2026 were objecting and 518 were in support. That's roughly 80% for and 20% against. In terms of sample size this is far bigger than either the Shetland Times poll or the SIC community meetings.

 

A glaring ommission from the 2544 representations is the SIC. To date SIC councillors still haven't discussed the Vikign Energy planning application. Every other statutory body from SNH to SEPA have responded, but the SIC have still to discuss it. A disgrace to local government and democracy.

 

If this bunch of councillors are so bad, it doesn't say much for the candidates who stood against them at the last election and were soundly trashed !

[ArabiaTerra]

... On the other hand the Viking Energy support group did organise its members to attend, and all spoke at great length at each meeting, and the best they could come up with was 21% support.

Errr, no it didn't. The Windfarm Supporters Group had only just formed at the time of these meetings and hadn't gone public (I think we'd had one, maybe two meetings at that point). There was no coordinated response to "sustainable" Shetlands nonsense. Anyone who spoke out in support of the windfarm at these meetings did so in an individual capacity.

[Carlos]

And if it comes down to anything close to a referendum of the Shetland public then this is where it passes or fails - purely on how convinced people are that it is a good deal for us.

20% of people may have strong philosophical views for, and 20% against, but the 60% in the middle are waiting to see what money is involved.....

I don't know where you picked up these numbers from Carlos, but the only real numbers available are the Shetland Times poll, and SIC windfarm community meetings.

Sorry I wasn't clearer, those are just hypothetical numbers to roughly llustrate what I think is the actual situation - that there are an auful lot of potential "swing voters" depending how well the financial deal is received, people who have probably not really showed up in the debate so far but likely have reservations that might or might not be overcome by the full picture.

[KTL]

Errr, no it didn't.

Err, I think it did. Windfarm supporters announced 23 Sep. SIC meetings start 28 Sep.

http://www.shetland-news.co.uk/2009/September/letters/New%20group%20in%20support%20of%20wind%20farm.htm

When Viking Energy organised the first "Windfarm supporters Group" meeting in Solarhus, were you there? When was it?

The SIC meetings were the catalist for Viking Energy to set up the group. They needed someone to put thier point of view at the community meetings.

That people were there in their own capacity will come as news to Windfarm Supporters who clearly declared themselves as such in the meeting transcripts - see Brae transcript when John Sutherland says "I’m a member of the Wind Farm Supporters." http://www.sustainableshetland.org/docs/SIC_Public_Meeting_VikingWindfarm_Brae_280909.pdf, page 6.

[LandRover S2a]

Broken link to pdf in last post

[khitajrah]

^ just remove the comma from the end: http://www.sustainableshetland.org/docs/SIC_Public_Meeting_VikingWindfarm_Brae_280909.pdf

[Malcolm]

Don't know if these has been posted before but they make interesting reading.

 

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1661284?UserKey=

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/windpower/7840035/Firms-paid-to-shut-down-wind-farms-when-the-wind-is-blowing.html

[skaterboy]

I'm sure arabia terra will be on soon to refute those lies and propaganda from those notorious tabloid hacks