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Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy


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yes it would. with planning and consent the banks would be brain dead not to. if the banks wont invest then it won't get built. sse and the trust and the others will be borrowing it from them.

 

look it will be built the only question is will it produce a profit. im not knowlegeable enough to work that out but i expect the experts are.

 

orkney the reduction of turbines being built in the middle of england/wales has always been marginal ours will be a whole lot more productive. when a 100 tories want to stop on shore windfarms it can be understood that they have other motives.

 

Many projects get turned down by banks even though they have Planning and Consent.

 

Ah yes, that magic word, "profit". As for 100 Tory MPs saying no, perhaps they have realised that not only is it the EU that is behind the present subsidies and it is also them that set fuel tax, it is also the EU that have the power to withdraw the subsidies AT ANY TIME or increase the fuel tax.

 

The more wind farms built elsewhere will, in essence, be competitors. It has already been mentioned that if all the other proposed wind farms get built that VE would not be needed. If so, then where will the "profit" come from and how will such "profit" fund the re-build in 25 years time from the date of opening?

 

Bankers usually want to see a far more detailed business plan than the information/waffle provided to us (the public aka the alleged "shareholders"); simply saying based on existing projects elsewhere doesn't quite cut the mustard in the business world. There is, however, the dismaying thought that the bankers may adopt the attitude that if it doesn't make a profit they can call in the loan and bankrupt Shetland; after all, we've nothing better to do than gamble with the reserves, now have we?

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ghosty your wagering too much on the current muppets being replaced with ones that will act diffrently. lets face it when the last lot retired did the replacements change how the council is run.

 

nope.

 

it will be the same again. im sorry but no matter what they say once they are in the town hall the seem to park their brains somewhere else. a bit like the new kid at school they will follow the older hands and be corupted along with them.

 

don't expect any of the new lot rejecting the viking project its there get out of jail card. same way the new lot are not going to change any of the cuts of the out going bunch.

 

but they must and i say that again must prove to us that the project will make money. like anything else if doing this on a small personal level would you build an energy saving system if your were not sure it woul make money

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unlink they have had talks with banks remember. they will not have a problem getting the funding for it. nether you me or ghost have knowledge of this kind of finance. maybe lets wait and see. thou if you or ghosty has a spare billion lying around i will happly amit im wrong.

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... nether you me or ghost have knowledge of this kind of finance.

 

Makes mental note to remind one's self I never worked for yonks in the square mile for the likes of Numis, Citi Group, Chase Manhattan Bank (albeit in a secretarial role), not to mention Foster Wheeler Energy Limited, Touche Ross, etc., before moving to the legal field. Also makes mental note I've never worked for local authorities seeking funding for large projects.

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thats a lot of jobs unlink. sorry but you dont know this field. you type stuff for folks. you may have gained a tadge of info in your various careers. but then my aunt and mum use to work for the Central Electricity Generating Board and neither of them could change a plug.

 

unlink this is not a dig at you. but until they have finalised there plans and found funding its just that. you claim they won't get funding i say they will. but then i would not claim to have your knowledge lets just wait and see.

 

a very goo safty warning will be if the 5% folks pull out as that will be there money at risk. if they are happy with a 20th of the risk then perhaps it just maybe a safe bet.

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Surely this still has some way to go before the approval is beyond doubt?

 

Just this morning, Roadsense :roll: have reported they're taking the Aberdeen ring road planning decision to an appeal in the the London supreme court, after dragging the process through courts and appeals for 2 years + already.

 

http://www.awpr.co.uk/

 

Surely the same challenges can be applied here?

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103 turbines is significantly less than the original 196 that Viking Energy originally wanted to build and is significantly less than the capaity of the 600MW interconnector. Also 103 is no doubt significantly less than the critical mass needed to justify the project in terms of cost/ profitability. It is still too big. If built, I am sure this windfarm will have to increase in size in order to pay for itself and turn a profit. I would not be surprised if it doubles in size. Proliferation is therefore going to be a major problem and not necessarily confined to the central mainland. If you are concerned about this, particularly if you are on the objectors side of this divided community and live in the central mainland area right now, I feel very sorry for you... going on the events of the past 5 years, the majority of Councillors, your MSP, your MP and the Scottish Government Energy Minister (to name but a few... i.e. the people who should be representing your interests) do not particularly seem to care whether you live inside a giant windfarm or not.

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yes it would. with planning and consent the banks would be brain dead not to. if the banks wont invest then it won't get built. sse and the trust and the others will be borrowing it from them.

 

look it will be built the only question is will it produce a profit. im not knowlegeable enough to work that out but i expect the experts are.

 

orkney the reduction of turbines being built in the middle of england/wales has always been marginal ours will be a whole lot more productive. when a 100 tories want to stop on shore windfarms it can be understood that they have other motives.

 

Many projects get turned down by banks even though they have Planning and Consent.

 

Ah yes, that magic word, "profit". As for 100 Tory MPs saying no, perhaps they have realised that not only is it the EU that is behind the present subsidies and it is also them that set fuel tax, it is also the EU that have the power to withdraw the subsidies AT ANY TIME or increase the fuel tax.

 

The more wind farms built elsewhere will, in essence, be competitors. It has already been mentioned that if all the other proposed wind farms get built that VE would not be needed. If so, then where will the "profit" come from and how will such "profit" fund the re-build in 25 years time from the date of opening?

 

Bankers usually want to see a far more detailed business plan than the information/waffle provided to us (the public aka the alleged "shareholders"); simply saying based on existing projects elsewhere doesn't quite cut the mustard in the business world. There is, however, the dismaying thought that the bankers may adopt the attitude that if it doesn't make a profit they can call in the loan and bankrupt Shetland; after all, we've nothing better to do than gamble with the reserves, now have we?

 

I pop in and find you still spouting garbish ?

 

SSE is hardly the small business that pops round to local bank with a detailed business plan an sweet talks the manager. They go to large commercial markets - issue bonds and the like.

 

Shetland can decide not to be part of the project. BUT, SSE have already said they have other interested partners to fund it. So, we can sit back and watch nearly 100% of the profits go South, or we can join and take a share of it for the community.

 

But, OTOH, you could be right . It is all a big conspiracy to bankrupt Shetland.

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Surely this still has some way to go before the approval is beyond doubt?

 

Just this morning, Roadsense :roll: have reported they're taking the Aberdeen ring road planning decision to an appeal in the the London supreme court, after dragging the process through courts and appeals for 2 years + already.

 

http://www.awpr.co.uk/

 

Surely the same challenges can be applied here?

 

An excellent example why the London Court should be kicked into touch. Keep their nose of of Scottish matters.

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I pop in and find you still spouting garbish ?

 

SSE is hardly the small business that pops round to local bank with a detailed business plan an sweet talks the manager. They go to large commercial markets - issue bonds and the like.

 

With all due respect, I was responding to Paulb's comment that myself and Ghostie had no experience of such financial matters (or words to that effect). Granted, I am definitely not a banker and have been an extremely 'small cog in the wheel' but have worked within large financial institutions and large firms of solicitors within commercial litigation; if you had cared to look up the firms I quoted, you'll see that these are not High Street banks. Whilst this experience may have resulted in a 'teeny weeny' understanding of how such institutions work, it is, nevertheless, experience.

 

Oops, you surely don't mean to insinuate that just because it is a large project that merchant bankers and the like wouldn't want to see a detailed business plan? Perish the thought that bankers have economists and specialists dealing in individual markets and sectors.

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103 turbines is significantly less than the original 196 that Viking Energy originally wanted to build and is significantly less than the capaity of the 600MW interconnector. Also 103 is no doubt significantly less than the critical mass needed to justify the project in terms of cost/ profitability.

 

Also, 103 turbines will cost significantly less to build, therefore reducing the overall cost of the project, therefore reducing the initial investment.

 

The Interconnector will be built as an extension of the National Grid. It will be paid for by slightly increasing the charges to use the whole grid across the whole UK. The cost of it might increase your bill by a few pence.

 

It is still too big. If built, I am sure this windfarm will have to increase in size in order to pay for itself and turn a profit. I would not be surprised if it doubles in size.

 

No it won't, for the reasons I outlined above. The windfarm, as proposed, will make a profit as it is because the cost of building it has been reduced along with the size.

 

Proliferation is therefore going to be a major problem and not necessarily confined to the central mainland. If you are concerned about this, particularly if you are on the objectors side of this divided community and live in the central mainland area right now, I feel very sorry for you... going on the events of the past 5 years, the majority of Councillors, your MSP, your MP and the Scottish Government Energy Minister (to name but a few... i.e. the people who should be representing your interests) do not particularly seem to care whether you live inside a giant windfarm or not.

 

Well if you* hadn't been so dead set against the original proposal, then it wouldn't have been reduced so much in size and wouldn't have freed up so much capacity on the link. So if you want someone to blame for a proliferation of turbines all over the Isles, point the finger at "sustainable" Shetland, not VE.

 

 

*You, as in those opposed to the windfarm, not Ched, specifically.

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103 turbines is significantly less than the original 196 that Viking Energy originally wanted to build and is significantly less than the capaity of the 600MW interconnector. Also 103 is no doubt significantly less than the critical mass needed to justify the project in terms of cost/ profitability.

 

Also, 103 turbines will cost significantly less to build, therefore reducing the overall cost of the project, therefore reducing the initial investment.

 

The Interconnector will be built as an extension of the National Grid. It will be paid for by slightly increasing the charges to use the whole grid across the whole UK. The cost of it might increase your bill by a few pence.

 

 

 

Interesting, but is it less than the critical mass needed to justify the project in terms of cost/ profitability?

 

 

 

It is still too big. If built, I am sure this windfarm will have to increase in size in order to pay for itself and turn a profit. I would not be surprised if it doubles in size.

 

No it won't, for the reasons I outlined above. The windfarm, as proposed, will make a profit as it is because the cost of building it has been reduced along with the size.

 

You seem very sure of yourself, so you'll have the evidence to prove this assertion?

 

 

Proliferation is therefore going to be a major problem and not necessarily confined to the central mainland. If you are concerned about this, particularly if you are on the objectors side of this divided community and live in the central mainland area right now, I feel very sorry for you... going on the events of the past 5 years, the majority of Councillors, your MSP, your MP and the Scottish Government Energy Minister (to name but a few... i.e. the people who should be representing your interests) do not particularly seem to care whether you live inside a giant windfarm or not.

 

Well if you* hadn't been so dead set against the original proposal, then it wouldn't have been reduced so much in size and wouldn't have freed up so much capacity on the link. So if you want someone to blame for a proliferation of turbines all over the Isles, point the finger at "sustainable" Shetland, not VE.

 

 

*You, as in those opposed to the windfarm, not Ched, specifically.

 

Correct, I am dead set against this proposal. Objector tend to be against a proposal. And don't be so utterly stupid, if sustainable shetland were building this windfarm then perhaps you could blame them for proliferation, but they are not. Sustainable Shetland should be thanked for making a huge effort to stop it all together. Viking Energy are planning to build this windfarm so they and their supports will be totally to blame for its impact and future proliferation.

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Well if you* hadn't been so dead set against the original proposal, then it wouldn't have been reduced so much in size and wouldn't have freed up so much capacity on the link. So if you want someone to blame for a proliferation of turbines all over the Isles, point the finger at "sustainable" Shetland, not VE.

 

 

*You, as in those opposed to the windfarm, not Ched, specifically.

 

Are you so utterly naive as to think that a proposal like this might not be met by some opposition?

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its very bogus to claim that shetland is opposed to the turbines. its roughly equal but lets not get into that again. the interconnector will be needed for any tidal systems that are built. so the sea will be our future but in the meantime this will provide the openning for marine. if they are canny enough they could invest some of the income on marine energy.

 

funny the wimble seems to have dropped out of the arguement its all about attacking the trust now. strange.

 

you never know unlink you may even get a better power supply from the upgrading of the network.[/code]

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