Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[Spinner72]

^^ Personal view, of course, but I'm not convinced of the negative effect some think will happen due to the aesthetics of the project. Sure, it'll be a mess for a while, but once landscaped and regrown, there will be many excellent, easily accessible viewpoints currently only avaliable to the able-bodied and dedicated.

 

I am also of the (cynical, maybe) view that the project will be an initial financial success, enough to cover initial investments hopefully, simply because of its prime place in helping meet various targets set by not so local government.

 

Following that, if it is a success, look for current subsidies to dissapear and be replaced by taxes...

[orkneypaul]

I think that we or at least the CT should be looking to people with knowledge of wind and how it works as in turbine sizing and capacity factors and so on and not going on the spin from the so called experts.

The spin says the wee turbines are so good and yes they are but why do we only get the data on the three small ones over three years and not the full farm over full term (see disclaimer on shetland aerogenerators site).

 

Orkney on the other hand has data for 25 years on the Burger hill site and little ones like Burridale were 44% actual output and they are only predicting 28.5% for the new 2.5Mw ones with 25 years of real data to go on. With VE upsizing the turbines on total height allowed in planning they would be even less efficent even if it was possible on land based farms.

 

SIEMENS WIND POWER

 

Siemens (formerly Bonus) is among a few companies who is increasingly successful in the offshore wind energy market. Its 3.6 MW SWT turbines of 107 m diameter (Figure 3.14) are now figuring prominently in offshore projects. Senior management in Siemens have indicated the end of a trend of exponential growth in turbine size (considering, year by year, the turbine design at the centre of their commercial supply). The stabilisation of turbine size has been a significant trend in the past three or four years and, although there is much discussion of larger machines and developments on the drawing board and a few prototypes, there is some evidence that, at least for land-based projects, turbine size is approaching a ceiling.

Note the size of their 3.6Mw 107 m diameter turbines would put VE 2.5 meters over the height allowed If mounted on the 95m tower.

 

So I do not think you should be banking on any profit just yet

[sjeunson]

^ Ah but AT, you seem to be forgetting that the SCT will not have a portfolio of shares if VE goes ahead - how else do you think they gonna raise the downpayment, let alone pay, £330 MILLION odd as their share of the £600 MILLION?

 

They could just go to the bank like any other commercial entity? Banks will want to finance this, no doubt about it. Contrary to at least one of the prospective councillors beliefs it is a fairly simple business model, proven to work by Burradale etc.

[unlinkedstudent]

^ That remains to be seen but, of course, they have yet to state what the APR is, etc.

 

Either way, I find it remarkably uncanny that Clyde Windfarm states within the project brochure that it too cost £600m - is this a figure SSE always use?

 

Elsewhere on the web it states that the Siemens turbines on that project were built at a local facory that went bust. How much extra would VE turbines cost, given the extra transportation costs?

[sjeunson]

I think that we or at least the CT should be looking to people with knowledge of wind and how it works as in turbine sizing and capacity factors and so on and not going on the spin from the so called experts.

The spin says the wee turbines are so good and yes they are but why do we only get the data on the three small ones over three years and not the full farm over full term (see disclaimer on shetland aerogenerators site).

 

If you're looking for quality wind data to do calculations on then realistically there's not much better than that of Burradale. Fit that data to a statistical curve and you're there. They have over 10 years of actual turbine data now plus whatever they had from a test mast beforehand. Following that it's a case of matching a turbine to the wind conditions. Burradale won't release anymore wind information than they have to as it's their commercial property.

[sjeunson]

^ That remains to be seen but, of course, they have yet to state what the APR is, etc.

 

Yup, £300million doesn't come for free, much is the pity!

[crofter]

Note the size of their 3.6Mw 107 m diameter turbines would put VE 2.5 meters over the height allowed If mounted on the 95m tower.

 

Similarly, the Shetland Times suggested vestas 4.5mw machines were a possibility, but from the vestas website, I see they have a tower height of 90 metres and rotor diameter 120 metres, therefore 150 metres total height.

[orkneypaul]

Yeah but reducing swept blade area reduced efficency big time just try sticking too small an engine on a generator and see what happens.

[Skyumpi]

^^ Personal view, of course, but I'm not convinced of the negative effect some think will happen due to the aesthetics of the project. Sure, it'll be a mess for a while, but once landscaped and regrown, there will be many excellent, easily accessible viewpoints currently only avaliable to the able-bodied and dedicated.

 

Once landscaped and regrown there will still be almost 80km of roads cut into these hills. The "single width" roads have a 6m wide running surface - sort of like the main A970 running through the Kames. The double width are now reduced to only 10m wide. That'll be a bit like the new Nort road leaving Lerwick, I'd guess, and there'll be 20km of it to minimise congestion on the main arterial routes through the wind farm.

 

Whilst on the subject of access, has anyone ever heard if VE will allow anyone onto the wind farm roads? Can anyone point me to info on this?

If I had to guess, I don't think anyone will be driving to the lochs or to check out the views from the hill tops.

[paulb]

i dont know sse policy but in the north west you were allowed they even put benchs and tables plus a car park. with info points.

[trowie246]

 

Whilst on the subject of access, has anyone ever heard if VE will allow anyone onto the wind farm roads? Can anyone point me to info on this?

If I had to guess, I don't think anyone will be driving to the lochs or to check out the views from the hill tops.

 

Just read on the VE website, mythbuster's, they won't be allowing public access with vehicles, its foot or bike only. They seem to be going along the lines of the Whitelee wind farm near Glasgow, there will be a car park and visitors centre.

[Skyumpi]

Thanks for that, Trowie. It's in item no.8 on the Mythbusters page, refuting claims that windfarms deter tourists. I had found a reference to it before somewhere in the reams of documents on the VE site but it only suggested there might be cycle paths or walking routes whereas this page says they do plan to accommodate them.

It was discussed at a meeting of the Shetland Access Forum some time ago but no firm proposals or routes were put forward.

[ArabiaTerra]

^ Ah but AT, you seem to be forgetting that the SCT will not have a portfolio of shares if VE goes ahead - how else do you think they gonna raise the downpayment, let alone pay, £330 MILLION odd as their share of the £600 MILLION?

 

The cost to the Trust will be around £72 million. The rest will be borrowed using the windfarm itself as security.

 

See here. (pdf)

 

BTW, is their any truthin the rumour that AT has already submitted his application to be the Manager of the VE Windfarm Visitor Centre when it opens? Has anyone told him that we'll probably be down to two ferries a week as no beggar will want to visit, let alone any tourists if this monster of a windfarm goes ahead?

 

Can you leave out the personal attacks, Unlinked? I get enough of that crap from Sheepshagger/Rona/bobdahog/Dratsy.

[unlinkedstudent]

AT, I really was under the impression you had a sense of humour; obviously I'm wrong.

[ArabiaTerra]

I think that we or at least the CT should be looking to people with knowledge of wind and how it works as in turbine sizing and capacity factors and so on and not going on the spin from the so called experts.

The spin says the wee turbines are so good and yes they are but why do we only get the data on the three small ones over three years and not the full farm over full term (see disclaimer on shetland aerogenerators site).

 

Are you talking about Burradale here? The overall efficiency of Burradale is 52% over the ten years of operation. I got that information from one of the Burradale owners, David Thomson, I think. Unfortunately I can't find the actual e-mail (my a/c got hacked a while back and a bunch of stuff got deleted).

 

If you want any info on Burradale, just e-mail the guys, they're usually pretty quick to respond.