Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[Ghostrider]

Seriously though, show me one example of a landslide in Shetland caused by road building, just one, then we can talk.

 

 

Redburn, Bigton. Autumn 1978 - The saturated hillside gave way under the weight of the road, taking the road with it for approx 25 yards.

 

Now that that irrelevance has been put to bed, on with the pressing point. The standard you're setting here is unrealistic, wherever a slip crosses a road the road may or may not have been the cause, or a contributory factor, or of no relevance whatsoever, and there is no way of proving which one unless the slip is witnessed from inception to completion. It is not something you can sift through the debris and forensically trace back to source, the evidence to do so with is long since lost.

 

Slips can and do start anywhere on a slope, and I would postulate that when one starts immediately above a road cut out, that even if it would have occured anyway, common sense dicates that by having removed the material from where the road has been constructed, that slip is given every encouragement to happen, and be as large and violent as possible, as you no longer have any material downhill from it providing resistance, only a void.

 

What there is though is clear evidence that a road most definitely impacts the flow rate, direction, and concentration of both water run-off and debris, which in turn dictates largely, if not completely what occurs downhill from that point.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Ghostrider

[Ghostrider]

I'll take an EXPERIMENTAL Peat Restoration Project over no restoration project at all. You never know, it might actually work.

 

Given that recent previous attempts at this, undertaken under the oversight of some of the (alleged) foremost soil experts and botanists in the country, were a total and abject failure. I am not feeling as much of an optimist as put my money on it "maybe" working, I think I'll risk 50p on pigs flying first instead.

[ArabiaTerra]

I'm no roads engineer but I'd hazard a guess that roadbuilding was a contributing factor in landslips shown in both these photos, and not even a great depth of peat by the looks of things.

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/9048-a-month-s-worth-of-rain-in-a-day

 

"A months worth of rain in a day". The headline speaks for itself. And how does the road affect things up-hill of the road?

[ArabiaTerra]

 

 

 

 

Seriously though, show me one example of a landslide in Shetland caused by road building, just one, then we can talk.

 

 

Redburn, Bigton. Autumn 1978 - The saturated hillside gave way under the weight of the road, taking the road with it for approx 25 yards.  (my emphasis)

 

 

And when was that road built? How long had that road been there before the landslide? My point is that the weather has changed. We are now seeing far more intense cloudbursts which are causing the landslides. These will continue to happen as long as we are in this new climate until there is no peat left on the hills anywhere in Shetland. There is nothing we can do about this.

 

Welcome to the Anthropocene.

 

 

I'll take an EXPERIMENTAL Peat Restoration Project over no restoration project at all. You never know, it might actually work.

 

Given that recent previous attempts at this, undertaken under the oversight of some of the (alleged) foremost soil experts and botanists in the country, were a total and abject failure. I am not feeling as much of an optimist as put my money on it "maybe" working, I think I'll risk 50p on pigs flying first instead.

 

 

Still better than nothing at all though.

[paulb]

a road can both cause and prevent a slip. you really need to prevent either drying or wetting of the natural peat water levels. a simple example badly planned drains will either dry or over soak a peat moss. preventing a pooling of water by not damming the flow of water in the peat. conversely causing a drying to happen will kill the moss and result in a dead eco system. the experts employed to plan and build tje roads will know this or i hope they do. https://corporate.vattenfall.co.uk/globalassets/uk/projects/south-kyle/ocms-1-road-and-wind-turbine-construction.pdffrom page 8 onwards.

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

a road can both cause and prevent a slip. you really need to prevent either drying or wetting of the natural peat water levels. a simple example badly planned drains will either dry or over soak a peat moss. preventing a pooling of water by not damming the flow of water in the peat. conversely causing a drying to happen will kill the moss and result in a dead eco system. the experts employed to plan and build tje roads will know this or i hope they do. https://corporate.vattenfall.co.uk/globalassets/uk/projects/south-kyle/ocms-1-road-and-wind-turbine-construction.pdffrom page 8 onwards.

 

*Coughs* What "experts"?  If they were employing experts, they wouldn't even have spouted off such jargon in the first place regarding restoring the peat.  They haven't even been up the Kames recently to see what's there.

[paulb]

you really dont know what your talking about. 

http://www.imcg.net/media/download_gallery/books/gprm_01.pdf

http://www.qpani.org/documents/PeatlandRestorationguidelinesfinal.pdf

http://www.climatexchange.org.uk/reducing-emissions/carbon-benefits-peatland-restoration/

http://www.gret-perg.ulaval.ca/uploads/tx_centrerecherche/Restoration-Guide_2nd_2003_01.pdf

http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A1453979.pdf

http://www.wildlifetrusts.org/peatlands

no experts really. 

[paulb]

http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/strategy/renewables/Good%20practice%20during%20windfarm%20construction.pdf

[Kevin]

 

I'm no roads engineer but I'd hazard a guess that roadbuilding was a contributing factor in landslips shown in both these photos, and not even a great depth of peat by the looks of things.

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/9048-a-month-s-worth-of-rain-in-a-day

 

"A months worth of rain in a day". The headline speaks for itself. And how does the road affect things up-hill of the road?

 

Easy - if it is uphill of the road, the road has cut through/across the layer of peat on the hill destabilising it and contributes to it breaking away above the road and flowing down over it.  Seems like common sense to me, of course the 'headline' has also been a contributing factor, I didn't say the building of the roads was the main cause.

[Urabug]

Would I not be correct in saying that some of the roads in Shetland actually "float" on peat.

 

Layers of "polythene" or some other material was laid on top of the peat and then the material for the actual road  laid on top .

 

This way less peat being desturbed.

[paulb]

Would I not be correct in saying that some of the roads in Shetland actually "float" on peat.

 

Layers of "polythene" or some other material was laid on top of the peat and then the material for the actual road  laid on top .

 

This way less peat being desturbed.

yes its a very old way of building tracks/roads/railways across peat. its not ideal for sloping peat. the most important bit is to try and not alter the water flow in it. peat is in itself unstable and if the conditions are right it will slip. as witnessed a few years back. its a red herring being used to try and stop viking. just look at a steep section of peat you will see loads of slips. most are not connected to man made structures. we do hear a load of doom mongering but they never say how they are planning to restore it. or in the case of our old friend the whimbrel how they are planning to improve their breeding areas. if nowt is done it will stop breeding in shetland.    

[James Mackenzie]

If there were no risk posed by the windfarm and its infrastructure, why then was a Peat Stability Assessment a requirement of the Environmental Impact Assessment? Anybody that thinks that the scale of engineering works won't have an impact on the hydrology and structure of peat in the vicinity is turning a blind eye to the inevitable. The government itself recognizes the risks: http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2006/12/21162303/0

 

You only have to look at what happened at Derrybrien in Ireland for an example of a very bad case scenario.

Ok, careful design, good site management and environmental control can help prevent disasters, but what worries me is that the assessments done for Viking Energy conclude that overall there is little to be worried about regarding peat stability, while the frequency of peat slides recently, within the windfarm area, indicate otherwise. Also it is now acknowledged by peatland experts that there is much yet to be learned about such phenomena as peat pipes and how they affect stability, and also the method of assessment may not be appropriate as it was developed for mineral soils.

I would like Viking Energy to give their opinion about the Mid Kame peat slide. They were warned that this area might be susceptible by a peatland ecologist. Yet the ES assessment identified a site at the south end of the kame as having insignificant hazard ranking.

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

you really dont know what your talking about. 

http://www.imcg.net/media/download_gallery/books/gprm_01.pdf

http://www.qpani.org/documents/PeatlandRestorationguidelinesfinal.pdf

http://www.climatexchange.org.uk/reducing-emissions/carbon-benefits-peatland-restoration/

http://www.gret-perg.ulaval.ca/uploads/tx_centrerecherche/Restoration-Guide_2nd_2003_01.pdf

http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A1453979.pdf

http://www.wildlifetrusts.org/peatlands

no experts really. 

 

 

-------------------------------

You're missing the point, paulb.  What experts are on Viking Energy's payroll right now and/or have been in the past?

 

What Viking Energy actually have published:-

 

"In 2010 Macaulay Scientific Consulting (MSC) reported extensive areas of bare peat surfaces with no heather or turf covering, particularly in the Nesting area, concluding that none of the blanket bog within the wind farm site could be described as pristine. In fact, it estimated that the greenhouse gases already escaping from the wind farm site could be as much as those from one of the major industrial complexes in Shetland.

One cause of erosion has been long-term overgrazing and other damage by sheep. Their numbers have much reduced in many Shetland hills in recent years.

Dr Richard Birnie of MSC calculated that peat was being lost from the top of Mid Kame to a depth of about four centimetres each year. MSC estimated some areas of peat up to one metre deep could disappear entirely within 25 years if nothing is done.

Mr Thomson said: "We have a site that is already losing its CO2 and we're proposing to do works that will mean the site releases less than it already is.

A pilot project for bog restoration and re-vegetation of bare peat has been proposed for an area of North Nesting. Lessons learned from that experience would shape the rest of the habitat management plan, which may run for 20 years or more.

The peat restoration and other conservation work would be done at Viking Energy's expense and in partnership with an independent environmental advisory group and a range of conservation bodies.

Mr Thomson commented: "Wind farms offer an opportunity to introduce proactive conservation to the Shetland hills that nobody else is currently showing any inclination to do. It will also provide an additional source of income for crofters in the area."

During wind farm construction most of the peat dug up for roads and turbine bases will be reused. Extensive measures will be taken to prevent hill peat drying out, including drainage control and the restoration and creation of small lochans to help keep peat waterlogged. It is hoped that many of the "floating" roads built over peat will not require drains at all.

The wind farm layout has been devised to minimise the risk of peat slides. Mr Thomson said: "Peat slides occur naturally from time to time in many parts of Shetland and there is evidence of slides from various times in history. It is possible to avoid increasing naturally present risks by using good construction practices and specific peat management plans.""

 

 

So just how big is this pilot area then?  Have they ever said?  Who is this independent environmental advisory group?

Edited October 28, 2015 by Suffererof1crankymofo

[James Mackenzie]

The pilot study area is presented in VE's Habitat Management Plan, and potential members of the independent advisory group are mentioned in it as well I think.

But what VE said in that excerpt above, about MSC and Dr. Birnie still irks me! He did not say that "none of the blanket bog...could be described as pristine." He actually wrote that, "It would...be inappropriate to describe the blanket bog within the...site as being entirely 'pristine'."

He qualified this by stating: "One of the concerns relayed to me [presumably by VE] was that the Viking Windfarm site was generally perceived to be 'pristine blanket bog'", going on to state that this was clearly not the case.

IMHO, the introduction of the term "pristine" was not very helpful. The crucial thing about blanket bog is whether it is active (i.e., capturing carbon) or not. In fact much of the site that was surveyed was found to be active bog. Some of this was "recovering", meaning that it had been eroded or "modified" but was becoming active again. The key to that is the presence of vegetation in the form of sphagnum moss and cotton grass.

At no point in his report did Dr. Birnie estimate "that the greenhouse gases already escaping from the wind farm site could be as much as those from one of the major industrial complexes in Shetland." That assumption was made elsewhere in the Addendum.

Finally, Shetland Amenity Trust, among others, has been undertaking some small-scale peatland restoration measures (there is non-windfarm funding available for this now).The results, to my mind, have been surprisingly encouraging. But applying the measures to large areas of eroded hilltops...not easy!

[paulb]

james i agree its not easy. now i have no connection with VE but i would expect once they are planning the route of the roads they will need to undertake an in-depth study and plan carefully. it wont or should not be one type of system to cope with the conditions. obviously they will need to import experts and plan to insure that environmental conditions are preserved. ive seen first hand how our weather and peat based soils are dynamically active.

 

scottish nature is one such body 

Suffererof1crankymofo