Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[Ghostrider]

On 18/01/2021 at 13:18, Urabug said:

The arguments for and against this project will go on for years ,but looking ahead all those new roads may well give access to new sites for housing and crofts in the future,it will also open up areas for coaches full of tourists assuming of course they are left open for public access.

Its not all negatives there are positives as well .

Roads up Scousburgh Hill,Collafirth Hill ,Saxavord, Shurton Hill, Bressay ect all came about with the need for radio transmission.

Unless for a very few exceptions the roads are all going through and to the tops of moory/heathery hills, you'd NEED global warming to make most of the locations in question habitable let alone croftable.

Yes, the roads will give access to many currently difficult to access areas and vantage points, and if you can find tourists that want to go there, thats great. Personally speaking though, regardless of how interesting an area may be otherwise, or how stunning the view may be the existence of great bloody white poles and waving blades, accompanied by shadow flicker any day we do have a bit of sun would destroy it for me.

That opinion is based on experience, not just imagination and supposition. I'm very familiar with both Fitful and the hills around Scousburgh, and all the garbage on them. its a mess, its ugly and its out of place. Despite both having the most stunning views in Shetland (yeah, yeah, okay, I'm biased) I have no desire to go there to enjoy those, as they're destroyed by the man made junk you can't avoid seeing at the same time, and its stuff that sits still, windmills wave at you too.

[Ghostrider]

17 minutes ago, Muckle Oxters said:

We can add da £400K a year Community Benefit Fund tae da list o positives https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2020/11/23/viking-energy-community-benefit-fund-agreement-an-important-step-forward/

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the £400k is only for the construction phase. Assuming a 5 year construction phase thats only £2 Million. A Million doesn't get you much these days, the 'two sheds' new AHS cost 50 odd of them......

Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that once commissioned payouts will be based on exported production............ Which may, or may not realise very much at all given how it goes with windfarms.

VE is at the very end of the wire, if the National Grid has an over provision of windfarm produced electricity VE will be the first to be switched off, and the Community Benefit Fund earns nothing when it is.

Investing in VE only starts to make sense if you view it as a 'top up' site. Shut it down at the earliest possible moment when windfarm input to the Grid reaches maximum safe levels so that the shut down subsidy can  be claimed for all 103 turbines, and only bring online the minimum number of turbines necessary to meet payable demand at all other times.

Which leads you to a likely scenario of extended periods where teh Community Benefit Fund earns nothing, yet SSE are coining it in hand over fist to not produce, and even longer periods where only a percentage of the windfarm is producing and they're only earning a trickle.

Best spend the £2 Million wisely, as what comes out of it after its up and running might not amount to a great deal of much at all......

Of course, while some view being handed £400k p.a. as a benefit others view it as a paltry 'bribe' to try and shut the noisy beggars up, and a few more simply see it as 'blood money'.

[Muckle Oxters]

6 hours ago, Ghostrider said:

Correct me if I'm wrong... Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression...

Surely da onus is on dee to check dy own facts. Du has painted a fairly negative picture based on brawly shaky foundations.

Could it be dat du has spent ower lang on da Facebook groups where, by dy own admission, naebody can see onything positive about Viking?

P.S. "blood money" is a splendidly dramatic ending  

[Muckle Oxters]

9 hours ago, Colin said:

There was many a 'pleep' of objection, and I think that you will find that the Gas Plant has a very large 'Peat Store' (?) on site.  In fact, it is so large that it is possibly the largest single structure on the site, and it's right next to the main gate as well.

Both da Gas Plant and Viking Energy hae comprehensive paet management policies, systems.. call it whit you will. I dunna recall da Gas Plant paets getting onywhaur near da level o public scrutiny dat Viking gets. I suspect it's because da Gas Plant is hidden ahint a hill, and his tight security so folk couldna tak photos o half done jobs and pit dem on da internet.

[Urabug]

We should not assume everyone is against those wind turbines.

https://www.infigenenergy.com/knowledge-centre/blog/tourists-are-big-fans-of-wind-energy/

[Spinner72]

See, yuns the thing.  Most folk see the sense in it, the bigger picture, and lets face it the fact we have to do something else as fossil fuels are limited.

Every time I see one of the windmills already up take a turn it just reminds me that's one less bit of polluting fuel burnt. Others have described them as "graceful" and "calming". It simply doesn't matter if some company is making money etc etc, what matters is it is better than burning more fuel. It really is that simple.

There are a lot of people out there who are really happy to see the move to wind energy, especially among the younger folks, who just cant get their heads around why people wouldn't want it. 

All opinions of course, and that's where the "anti" campaign and facebook groups fall down. They have decided everything they do, including threatening and verbally abusive behavior, is 100% correct and no other opinion is valid.

[MuckleJoannie]

13 hours ago, Muckle Oxters said:

Both da Gas Plant and Viking Energy hae comprehensive paet management policies, systems.. call it whit you will. I dunna recall da Gas Plant paets getting onywhaur near da level o public scrutiny dat Viking gets. I suspect it's because da Gas Plant is hidden ahint a hill, and his tight security so folk couldna tak photos o half done jobs and pit dem on da internet.

The gas plant wasn't touted as a green project, Viking is.

[Huginn]

A wise man one told me he landed a muckle troot and den watched in fascination as folk rushed tae the sem loch and thrashed the water tae a foam. What I canna understand, he said, is why folk go mad trying tae catch a troot dats already been caught.

Yes, folk should keep an eye on da wye VE is byggit now, but it canna be stopped. Looking ahead tae Mossy Hill, and the Yell eens is what may be still worth fighting. Then, if they canna be stopped, what will be the community benefit from them?

[Ghostrider]

14 hours ago, Muckle Oxters said:

Surely da onus is on dee to check dy own facts. Du has painted a fairly negative picture based on brawly shaky foundations.

Could it be dat du has spent ower lang on da Facebook groups where, by dy own admission, naebody can see onything positive about Viking?

P.S. "blood money" is a splendidly dramatic ending  

I believe my facts ta be accurate, but if anybody can prove otherwise, I'm willing to accept I may be wrong. VE has now been through so many hands and incarnations in its twenty year journey, its difficult to keep up, and especially as its descended behind a wall of corporate spin and hyperbole in recent years, facts have become increasingly hard to locate.

I have spent very little time in the Facebook groups, I said all I wanted to say on this thread and elsewhere a long time ago, long before the Facebook groups were even started. They hold very little interest to me, as everything I saw in them was preaching to the converted, and there was a sense at times that they were struggling to keep up with the game and trying to bolt a stable door from which the horse was already gone.

The profit from VE will go to the suppliers of the hardware, they're all outwith Shetland, the owners, who are in effect SSE, a non Shetland company, and the contractors who construct it, the main players of whom are non-Shetland companies.

Landowners will profit, but thats only in the low single figures who are Shetland residents, grazings rights holders will get something, what, nobody knows, as thats never been divulged AFAIK, but I'd doubt the p.a. payment per ha. is likely to be able to cover a family meal at Busta. A few local outfits will get smaller contracts and sub contracts within the overall works, but thats temporary and short term. At the end of it all it'll just be seen as another job, a pay packet for a few months, no big deal either way.

The Community Benefit Fund appears to be 'guaranteed' a few 100 k, but its all going to be spent via Community Councils only, so time will tell whether it goes to something needed/useful or vanity projects and follies. After that, who knows, maybe the CBF will get a whole pile more dosh every year, maybe they won't......it all depends on what SSE can sell on the other end of their wire.

SAT may get something in return for their now small shareholding, or they may not. Again it depends on what SSE sells out that wire. The Burradale crew may, or may not get a few quid, *if* they still have their now miniscule share in it, but that again is only a handful of individuals.

Meanwhile, the rest of us, 22,000+ have to put up with the carry on of a several year construction phase followed by decades of an eyesore covering half of Shetland, while at the same time knowing that every time VE production is closed down due to over-provision of windfarm electric in the grid, we're all paying for the subsidy they're receiving via our horrendous electric bills.

So, no. I don't see and never have seen what the 'positive' side of VE is.

Feeding in to the local netword from windmills was one thing, even though we still paid the same price for electric regardless whether Burradale was producing flat out, or everything was coming from diesel. But when you're building a windfarm to feed in to the UK grid, where windfarms are already being paid not to produce from time to time, the investor(s) are relying as much on the value of subsidy during such enforced shutdowns to make the project profitable as they are relying on the price they get for what they do manage to sell out of it.

[Muckle Oxters]

So du doesna lik da look o wind turbines, da construction might inconvenience dee and du'll likely no be seein ony profit fae dem. Is dat a fair summary o why du doesna like dem? 

[Spinner72]

@Ghostrider  Good detailed post dere, and I am not goin to try to prove de wrong, but is du happy ta accept dat idder opinions exist?

Similar ta de, I haven't hidden my views, which are that the construction is fantastic for Shetlands economy. I already keen wan young family thats been able to move back to Shetland because of dat alone and there are plenty more who will benefit.

When they're finished, I accept some may see dem as an eyesore, but I canna wait ta see dem as I think dey look splended, and will really set aff da area. Da roads are already lookin brilliant! 

Finally, I believe everybody benefits fae dem when dey are up and running as its a huge amount of fossil fuels no longer being burnt, dat is indisputable. Sure, there could have been more finances directed locally, but thats always been secondary to the move to renewable (as opposed to green) energy for me.

I just canna see any negatives.

And I believe we are both right.

[Muckle Oxters]

1 hour ago, Spinner72 said:

And I believe we are both right.

I feel lik a WW1 soldier in da trenches on Christmas Day waiting to see if @Ghostrider is going to pass da ball back tae @Spinner72 or fire his rifle at him  

[Huginn]

Da de’il is in da detail. Da big argument  is moot noo, as said. Wird from the contractors (asides from finding 6metres o peat depth where they expected 3m and now months behind schedule), is that roads alang ridge lines is quite unusual, and not something they've done afore. Nae harm might come o it, but will they be able tae stabilise peat on baith sides? Time will tell. 

[Ian_H]

On 20/01/2021 at 19:51, Spinner72 said:

See, yuns the thing.  Most folk see the sense in it, the bigger picture, and lets face it the fact we have to do something else as fossil fuels are limited.

Well that is the thing. Fossil fuels, or I would rather describe it as fossil resources are limited. I remember years ago hearing a talk about climate change, about increasing CO2 in the atmosphere and how mankind is affecting the weather. But what I remember from that talk was a comment in the closing remarks. I’m not sure that I can quote it exactly, but it was along the lines “Even if you don’t believe in climate change, oil and gas is too valuable to just burn”. That comment stuck with me.

Sitting at your computer, what is it made of? Your clothes, your furniture, significant parts of your car will all have plastics or other materials made from hydrocarbons. If oil and gas extraction goes on at present rates, how long will it last, 20 years? 200 years? I don’t know, but I’m absolutely sure it won’t last 2000 years. So I wouldn’t say that all oil and gas extraction should be totally stopped, what I think is important is that it should be preserved for making other things and not simply be burned for uses like generating electricity or powering motor cars where other options are available.

Yes preserving hydrocarbons has a “green” bonus to in terms of not producing so much CO2, but I think that reducing the use of a limited natural resource that is really useful is reason enough to try to preserve as much of it as possible for the future.

[Colin]

I wonder if anyone has ever considered a life without oil.?

Here's a link for those who would want to see just how far down the road we are;

https://www.worldometers.info/oil/

The figures shown are for 2016, but will work as a guide.

I would guess that our current usage is accelerating somewhat and I would also guess that, as reserves dwindle, the cost of oil will also rise quite a bit.  

No more jetting off on foreign holidays.  Little , or no, private transport.  The time is coming when we will have to re-consider the things we now consider "essential".

Looking like in the forseable future, we might be reverting to the practices of the past.  Horses and sails for transport wool and cotton for clothes, water power for mills, growing your own food etc.  Oh, and we could easily end up fighting over a handfull of rice...

All this is assuming that we still have an atmosphere that we can breathe...

We're doomed I tell you, DOOMED....