Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[Ghostrider]

<--snip--> I also don’t buy the argument that Shetland is washed up economically either. Human ingenuity and technology changes all the time. <--snip-->

 

I don't think those particular points are being debated, however it's also been proven many times over in Shetland's past that unless a local export industry utilises a unique local resource, it's success and future can be wiped away in the blink of an eye. Primarily due to any local industry of that nature being hit twice by freight charges, firstly to import raw material, and secondly to export the finished product.

 

We have a strictly limited range of local resources, the agriculture which the land can support is not going to grow from where it is without major swings in attitude from EU, UK and Scottish Governments. Fisheries seem very much in the same boat (pun intended). Aquaculture as has been mentioned may have growth potential, but that's just one possible income stream, and as has also been mentioned, all ones eggs in one basket is not clever either. I covered fresh water, rock and wind in my last post, so won't repeat myself. What's left in Shetland to apply any human ingenuity and technology to beyond those? There may be something, but if there is it's unheard of at the moment, and as such unlikely to make a contribution to incoming revenue to the islands for quite some time if at all ever.

 

For the record I don't buy the whole global warming hype, I never have. There is probably something in it, but I seriously doubt the so called experts really know much more about it that your average lay observer, and far too many people are talking up far too many selected "facts" on the subject for their own agendas anyway, to be able to give it very much credibility. It really matters none to me whether a Shetland windfarm does or doesn't reduce carbom emissions, it not a factor in my reasoning to form an opinion of the issue. And so what if it's jumping on a bandwagon to make a quick buck, the more bucks which end up staying here instead of someplace else, the better we'll be for it. *If* electricity can be produced and sold export in this way at a profit, why not? As many have said many times, "You can't live off the view".

 

I see no reason why a small tract of hill shouldn't be sacrificed for the purpose, the current proposals I do agree affect far too much land area. I also have doubts about the current directorship's suitability for the task in hand, and of the effectiveness, productivity and longevity of the technology in question. However, Burradale would seem to be small scale proof that a larger scale venture is worth seriously considering.

[Ghostrider]

Simple question for the "anti" camp. What is Shetland and what are Shetland residents going to survive on in the future?

 

This question and its answer in no way affect the wrongness of what is proposed as a huge windfarm on Shetland.

It is a good question and the answer is simply 'self-sufficiency'.

The millions stashed away must be applied initially to a massive training system. Then used in setting up small industries and then in a push to export.

It begins like this. Say - SIC have a bill of £100,000 a year for toilet rolls (it could be several types of things) there is no way in can be reduced and it has to be imported. You start from scratch by bringing in one or two specialists and others who can train men and women in every aspect of producing toilet rolls from engineering to admin to design to finance to production to sales etc. New style modern apprenticeships for all age groups are on offer, full time and part time. You will need to build an eco friendly all encompassing production facility which will include the facilities necessary for training as well as production and admin. At a certain stage you will be able to supply the £100,000 worth of toilet rolls and a condition of the initial investment by SIC in training and setting up everything is also that the new company is guaranteed that £100,000 contract each year. The company will then look at gaining contracts to supply toilet rolls off Shetland. The surplus trained staff will at an agreed stage move on to the next large contract requirement.

The key to all this is training. Perhaps inviting all those young people who have gone from Shetland after say university to come back as trainers in their particular speciality. Reuniting families in the process. Setting up a family business style in which age is no barrier to skills and to earning a living wage.

A similar system could be established in the services sector. Training is the key. Demographics of the Shetland population the governing factor so that money is effectively directed.

It is practical and achieveable with the political will and the brains behind it. For goodness sake its not space science.

 

The theory is good, but it ignores several known pitfalls. Using your given example of toilet rolls is as good as any, as the same negatives apply to it as to many other products which could be addressed similarly. Firstly, you construct your paper mill facility which is fine an well, however before it becomes a viable operation I suspect your weekly sales are going to have to be considerably more than circa £2000 from your SIC contract. Exporting is going to have to be vital, otherwise the toilet rolls the SIC will receive will cost them considerably more than their current £100,000 per annum, from at least the initial investment they made to provide the facility, and perhaps even in onging costs.

 

If you can export profitably, then that all fine and well. However to do so you are already starting out at multiple competitive disadvantages being Shetland based. One, the vast majority of your raw material will have to come in on the boat, and your product will have to leave the same way, with all the costs that incurs. Quite a difference to a producer with a pulp mill along the road, and several cities with major wholesale distribution points within a hour or two's drive. Secondly, once you start exporting you are going up face to face with big players in the paper game, some are nationals and multi-nationals with the advantages of bulk purchasing and selling power, and the lower overheads per product of large manufacturing facilities. Chances are they could sell their product in competition to the Shetland made one at a cost under what the Shetland one could let it go at break even, and they'd still be taking a profit on the deal.

 

It's a good idea in principle, but in practice Shetland producers and manufacturers of products for the local market have been put out of business, due to large scale producers and manufacturers on the mainland, being able to produce at such low cost due to the sheer scale of their operations, that they could afford to pay to export to Shetland and still sell at a price which undercut local producers and manufacturers break even point. Potatoes are a good example, massive hectarages and almost fully automated harvesting, sorting and packaging machinery, plus higher yields in prime growing areas in the south, means that the price is so low local growers could no longer compete with imports several years ago. The somewhat lower yields here, plus the more labour intensive handling methods which were the most automated machinery the size of the local hectarages and market could finiancially justify, simply could not compete.

[Seahorse]

Hi,

I was unable to attend the two public meetings about the windfarms so apologies if this points have been considered and answers given already.

What provision is there for the TV signals up North (ie past Girlsta)? I moved back to Shetland after the Burradale windmills were in place I may be wrong but I thought there was some compensation paid to the residents in Scalloway & Tingwall on the loss of reception caused by the windwills. Am I right in thinking that an extra 'repeater station' (not sure the correct name for it) was built in Scalloway too? I have no analog signal in Tingwall, and to receive digital I had to buy a signal booster. and I still don't receive all the digital channels that are available, missing History, hits, Film4 & Film4+1 to name a few.

My point is, will there be provision made to either install cable or erect more repeater stations in Shetland to the effected areas? Will the company pay for this or will the SIC pay for it? Will Council tax money be used?

[MuckleJoannie]

Hi,

I was unable to attend the two public meetings about the windfarms so apologies if this points have been considered and answers given already.

What provision is there for the TV signals up North (ie past Girlsta)? I moved to Shetland after the Burradale windmills were in place I may be wrong but I thought there was some compensation paid to the residents in Scalloway & Tingwall on the loss of reception caused by the windwills. Am I right in thinking that an extra 'repeater station' (not sure the correct name for it) was built in Scalloway too? I have no analog signal in Tingwall, and to receive digital I had to buy a signal booster. and I still don't receive all the digital channels that are available, missing History, hits, Film4 & Film4+1 to name a few.

My point is, will there be provision made to either install cable or erect more repeater stations in Shetland to the effected areas? Will the company pay for this or will the SIC pay for it? Will Council tax money be used?

 

I suspect the analogue transmitters will have been switched off by the time the windmills are operational. The Grampian area is scheduled for 2010.

 

http://www.digitaltelevision.gov.uk/dig_switchover/wtdigswitchover_home.html

[Seahorse]

Me again,

thought of another question, what provision has Vikingenergy made to complete or sponcer the completion of wildlife surveys of the affected areas? Have their Environmental Impact Assessments on the local Flora and Fauna come from 'suspected numbers' and 'typical species', in other words did they read it in a book? will they finance outside agencies to assess the area? Will there be provision to 'translocate' populations or species that would otherwise be distroyed?

I am writting with only a little knowledge about the diversity and species contained within the moorlands and wetlands of central Shetland but, I do know that elsewhere in Shetland there are 'rare' and 'at risk' colonies which have a world importance. Take the Arctic Char Salvelinus alpinus which has only been recorded in the Loch of Girlsta, it was stranded after the last ice age and is thought to have evolved into a seperate sub-species.

Or the Edmondston's Chickweed Cerastium nigrescens found only at the Keen of Hamar (a piece of hillside with no commercial or agricultural value) in Unst.

The reason the habitats of Central Shetland have survived as they are is because they have had no commercial value before now. So before carving them up/ destroying them should'nt some-one have a really good look and at the very least, record what was there for future generations?

[Sudden Stop]

Viking Energy Wesite

 

It's probably worth taking a look at their site. They seem to be taking care of all that, although there doesn't seem to be any results yet.

[Njugle]

Meanwhile, elsewhere....

Wind farms blamed for eagle deaths

Wind turbines have caused the deaths of four white-tailed eagles in Norway. The discovery of the dead white-tailed eagles, and the failure of almost 30 to return to nesting sites within the wind farm area on the Smøla islands, has increased fears that wind farms in the UK could have a similar toll on the native and migrating wild birds.

Mark Avery, the RSPB's Conservation director said, 'These findings are shocking, yet may only be the tip of the iceberg. Research on the islands is being stepped up and if more dead birds are found, and even fewer are able to breed, we will be doubly determined to fight wind farm plans that could cause similar disruption in the UK.'

The 68-turbine Smøla wind farm was built between 2001 and 2005. The Norwegian government ignored advice based on an environmental assessment, warning against the development because of the danger it posed to white-tailed eagles. Birdlife International took the case to the Bern Convention but the decision was not overturned.

Stumbled upon that today.

[Sudden Stop]

^^^

 

You can see a clear difference between Shetland's proposed windfarm and the Lewis windfarm. The Viking Energy approach of ask the RSPB where not to build and then not build there is the best way to get around the above type of article. The Lewis windfarm was simply - where is the cheapest place to build and stuff everything else, thus the RSPB aren't happy about it.

 

Proper impact assessments are crucial in the planning for these projects to get agreement from groups like the RSPB, and importantly acting on the advise too.

[islandhopper]

Viking Energy Wesite

 

It's probably worth taking a look at their site. They seem to be taking care of all that, although there doesn't seem to be any results yet.

 

Sudden Stop, that's what I tried to explain earlier. Their is a lot of announcements about what to do and about what is has be done already (their history is going back to 2002 and 2005!!!) but there are no or only little results. Sorry, but we have now March 2007 and there are no results of researchwork which was done years ago?

 

It's even worse - there are clear statements on the site, that not all the results will be published! There are quite simple claims, that all results which might enlighten business details may be "reserved matters".

 

And that makes it really difficult to judge about real figures which are released so far. Just one example: The published figure of some 3.1 sqkm of peat recovering for the access roads - is this the "minimal figure" according to the calculations they must have done or - to question it otherwise: is there a "maximal figure" which is not released due to the fact that these figure might effect "serious business concernes" - that is to allow competitors and/or the public to recalculate the overall cost?

 

Please note: I'm just asking! I'm not saying that it is like this.

[Sudden Stop]

The public consultation meetings have had a week or so to answer some the questions that people had about the windfarm. And to be fair, will have no doubt, raised some new questions. Most people have had a look at the windylights magazine and by now have a better understanding about the project (although i'm still meeting people that think the map that was in the magazine was the final layout - which it isn't).

 

I was wondering if, since there are elections coming up anyway, if an un-official referendum/poll could be done as people are voting for their next councillor? I suggest it because the MORI poll that was conducted is being discredited by the 'no' camp because it was 'too small'. Why not get the opinion of every voting member of the public?!

[islandhopper]

Sorry, Sudden Stop, it is sometimes difficult to follow the local discussion from the outside view. Nevertheless, if you are referring with the "MORI poll" to the report on impacts for the tourism industry quoted on the VikingEnergy website, it would really be worth to have a little argument about that ...

[Sudden Stop]

Sorry, Sudden Stop, it is sometimes difficult to follow the local discussion from the outside view. Nevertheless, if you are referring with the "MORI poll" to the report on impacts for the tourism industry quoted on the VikingEnergy website, it would really be worth to have a little argument about that ...

 

Eeeek, an arguement! 8O How's about a good natured debate instead?

 

I believe that one of the questions in the poll had the result that a large majority were in favour of the project. My question is that, now some more facts have been released in the form of public meetings where concerns could be raised and answered, should another poll be taken (in the form of a referendum type poll) at the forth coming elections? I wouldn't be surprised if this showed a swing towards the 'no' vote, as the expansion from just in the Kames to all over northen central mainland seems to have shocked a good few.

 

The people of Shetland now know more about the proposal than they did when the MORI poll was conducted. I would just like to know exactly what the voting public think, not just the noisy minority (which I'm probably a part :tmbup; ).

[islandhopper]

How's about a good natured debate instead?

... agreed. Let's have it tomorrow! Today my nose dipped to deep into a Scapa simply due to the fact that Blackwood had no Shetland brand available to celebrate my birthday ... cheerio ...

[crofter]

Sorry, Sudden Stop, it is sometimes difficult to follow the local discussion from the outside view. Nevertheless, if you are referring with the "MORI poll" to the report on impacts for the tourism industry quoted on the VikingEnergy website, it would really be worth to have a little argument about that ...

 

Here is what "windylights" has got to say about the effect on tourism:

"On balance, we think the effect on Shetland's growing tourism industry could be small but (bearing in mind that people generally seem to favour green energy) slightly on the positive side."

So they will be a tourist attraction???

[crofter]

My question is that, now some more facts have been released in the form of public meetings where concerns could be raised and answered, should another poll be taken (in the form of a referendum type poll) at the forth coming elections?

 

Drew Ratter, Bill Manson and Florence Grains don't think so, according to the report in the March 16 Shetland Times.