Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[Heimdal]

> The channel tunnel generated some 8 million cubic meters of spoil for example.

 

How and where was that disposed of

[ArabiaTerra]

7 meter rise in sea levels

get a grip o deesel boy, even the most rabid doom and gloom merchants don't take a rise like that seariously.

Hmmm, I thought I'd explained this one. Oh well, one more time.

 

If the Greenland ice cap melts, sea levels will rise, globally, by 7 metres.

 

The melting of the Greenland ice cap is not only dependent on temperature, it also depends on the altitude of the surface of the ice (It gets colder the higher you go and the surface of the icecap is currently at several thousand metres above sea level). This means that once it has melted by a certain amount it passes a point where the melting becomes irreversible and the whole thing goes and you get your seven metres. This melting has already started, though we haven't reached the point of no return yet.

 

Is that clear enough for you?

 

In fact on our little bit of the planet the ground level is rising (due to the two mile thick ice sheet recently removed by global warming) at about the same rate as the average predicted sea level rise so we should experiance no great change over time.

Rubbish. The ground level is rising by 1-2 centimetres per century, the predicted sea level rise from global warming for this century is 70-150 cm, and it will accelerate as the Earth warms.

Why not tidal, wave and hydro power used together, hydro for times of slack tide and no waves and pump the water back up evey night when the tide is running and power ussage is at its lowest.

Great, except that all of those options will be much more expensive than windmills, so will lead to higher bills.

Bit of a mis-representation of the facts there. You might be technically correct in that statement, but when the tide is slack in one area, it's running in another. Tidal generation has that big advantage over wind or any other form of renewable generation. With a small number of generators strategically placed, you can have a guaranteed supply.

Good point, I'll give you that one. But still, tidal turbines will be much more expensive than windmills (Maybe not to build, but certainly to maintain) so will lead to more expensive power.

high risk, very uncertain financial gain

I still don't get this high risk thing, where's the risk? The cost of fossil fuel based power is rising fast and set to continue rising. The so-called green taxes will only get higher and so will the subsidies for renewables. It is true that there is currently a higher transmission charge based on distance from the market, but as I pointed out earlier, that can be solved by the stroke of a bureaucrats pen, it is not an technical problem. Any gamble involved seems much safer than simply leaving the money in the stock market. How much have we lost in the recent trouble?

[sheepshagger]

Any gamble involved seems much safer than simply leaving the money in the stock market. How much have we lost in the recent trouble?

 

This last statement is typical of a hysterical fool.

yes we have lost a fair chunk but not all of our money but this too could of been prevented at the stroke of a beurocrats pen, a very simple law that only allows investment banks, stockbrokers etc to charge a percentage of any money made for their clients not a percentage of any money their client gives them to manage. In fact any regulation would have been better.

but the point is ve want us to put all our eggs in one basket THEIRS.

 

The stock market will rise again in time and until then we should cut our cloth to suit and not spend millions on non essential projects.

 

The oil industry is going to be here for many years to come green taxes applied to the uk consummer will not be applied to exported oil, we will continue to sell it to the highest bidder. what we need to do is assert our legal rights and have the oil companies pay us a damn sight more than they do now.

we should be looking at tidal, wave and hydro power, even wind but not on the scale of the ve proposal.

The power station at sullom should be upgraded and power supplied free to the ct who could then sell it on at a reasonable rate so swelling the coffers further.

 

research into tidal and wave energy has advanced leaps and bounds recently and in 30 to 40 years when sullom has neared the end of its life we will be in a position to bring on a tested proven design and get all our energy from the sea and sell that to the uk, meanwhile there has been no need to screw up our hills of shetland to satisfy your need to spend our money on expensive projects that will fill the pockets of a few and leave the rest of us a lot poorer financialy and environmentaly.

[sheepshagger]

500 windmills offshore the south of england will generate more kws than 200 up here and will lose a lot less in transmission due to being a lot closer to the end user.

A lot less damaging to the environment is another huge advantage.

A lot cheaper as well.

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

> How and where was that disposed of ?

 

I believe on the UK side we built a 34 hectare siite called Samphire Hoe on former land under the sea, with it being pumped there if I remember correctly.

 

 

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/sciencetech/volcano-not-global-warming-effects-may-be-melting-an-antarctic-glacier/714

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071212103004.htm

 

> Scientists have discovered what they think may be another reason

> why Greenland 's ice is melting: a thin spot in Earth's crust is enabling

> underground magma to heat the ice

 

It might be due to this, rather than global warming. If so, perhaps we need to start drilling and siphoning off that heat, or we could:

 

http://www.astronomyedinburgh.org/publications/journals/48/page3.shtml

 

> One way to lower the temperature of the Earth would be to reduce the

> amount of solar energy reaching it. This could be achieved by placing

> a shield between the Earth and the Sun so that less solar energy

> reaches the planet.

 

http://www.nss.org/adastra/volume18/angel.html

 

> The estimated total of less than $5 trillion is not out of line with the

> value of the shield—$5 to $10 trillion over several decades.

 

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/11/07/sunspot_pla.html?category=earth&guid=20061107105030

 

 

> Nigel, why don't you use the

 

I'm in 2,000+ forums, often with differing methods of quoting/etc. so I tend to stick to the standard I came across 20 years ago. Though without threading in messages here its harder to follow, but I guess eventually modern technology will catch up with forum software

[Njugle]

2,000+ forums? .Blimey.

 

Nigel, the quoting system here is nothing more complex than clicking on the button in the top right corner of the post you wish to quote, marked as "quote".

 

Alternatively there is a button on the 'post a reply' page, 4th from the left, marked 'quote'.

 

To split quotes for answering just copy and paste sections of text in/out of the piece that appears between

tags

 

Hope that helps.

[tlady]

^^

 

2000+

 

It takes me all my time to keep up with Shetlink.

 

When do you work Nigel?

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

I work at home

 

Being a fast reader and fast typist, and using some fancy software for many of the forums allows me to keep up suprisingly well.

 

These fancy web forums are awfully slow though.

[petrocelli_]

the time you spend writing crap on here if freed up could be spent writing to evryone else telling them your views on the state of the planet, why be selfish and restrict your great wisdom to the users of shetlink

 

Slightly hyprocitical there shagger! You obviously disagree strongly with AT but after your last two posts I wonder why you're even bothering entering the debate if all you can come up with is asking the SVT manager to upgrade the power station and then supply the CT with free power... BRILLIANT... you're a genius!! :lol:

 

Great reply Sheepshagger!

Ever watched grand designs, when some jerk goes ahead with building a bloody mansion, but forgot to get local planning first, then has to tear it all down? Thats VE at the moment,"JERKS"

 

Oh dear, again PJ, if that is your feeling to those who support such a project it does not portray your persona in a great light. You should start using a tad more tolerance when it comes to debating such topics!

 

I have a great love and passion for Shetlands enviroment and wildlife and culture, and anyone who would gamble that away for a high risk, very uncertain financial gain in my mind is a JERK at the very least.

There are other options available if only they would stop and think first.

 

While I have no doubt that you have a "great love and passion for Shetland" it is exactly your attitude to others, who do not share your viewpoint on what is best for Shetland, which leaves me thinking that blinkered individuals like yourselves do this debate no good.

 

People like you have already jumped past Environmental/Health Impact studies and made up your own minds. You don't want it under any guise and stuff the rest of you. I, on the other hand, am willing to hear all the evidence which either rules in or out the VE project becoming a reality.

 

Why can't you have the decency to do the same?

[Ghostrider]

Why wait? Enviornmental/Heath impact assessment(s) ordered and funded by the developer from a source of their choice, is putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum.

[paulb]

its aways been the way the experts will supply what the customer wants.

[PJ of Hildisvik]

Petrocelli, do you think VE will listen to the RSPB and SNH etc when the EIA comes out?? They wont join in the debate until then, OOH and what if they dont approve of the project? crikey

Mean while Thomson and Preist are in London, pricing out all the goodies needed for the diabolical project.

It's LUNATICS running the Asylum alright

[sheepshagger]

if all you can come up with is asking the SVT manager to upgrade the power station and then supply the CT with free power... BRILLIANT... you're a genius!!

 

 

where did you get the notion from that I would be asking him.

 

I am of the opinion formed from 20 years working in the oil industry, that the operator of sullom voe would pay a damn sight more than they are at the moment. If they are not then they can sausage off and another operator can take over, plenty out there that would be more than willing.

Fact is we sent a damn fool from edinburgh to renegotiate the sullom deal and from a position of strength he managed to negotiate away the penny a ton and has us providing towage and pollution control at a fraction of its worth to them.

we will have to clean up the mess when they eventually finish with the place, just like we carry a £90million housing debt brought about providing housing for the itinerant workers that built the place.

thats a debt that has to be serviced and eats in to community funds every day.

And you wonder why i won't trust the same set of jokers to make a success of the ve project.

Even though the guy from edinburgh is no longer with us I see they have hired another one at £80 grand a year + expenses and he's only now going to discuss moving here with his wife, what if she says screw that, are we going to pay for him to stay in a hotel here and fly home at the weekend? probably.

[Ghostrider]

^^What else did anyone expect, considering the original agreement of penny a ton was so good for the oil industry that almost as soon as we'd signed up for it, an oil company rewarded the main negotiator of it with a good job with them. We've been shafted by oil companies from day numero uno, and I bet the older generation who said so back in 77/78 are very glad they're long dead now, and not around to see their assessment proved 100% correct.

[Carlos]

Why wait? Enviornmental/Heath impact assessment(s) ordered and funded by the developer from a source of their choice, is putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum.

 

That's the planning system - the applicant submits supporting matterial for consideration. Hard to see what could be different? Should the public fund investigations to any application anybody wants to make? Or should an exception be made as it's not a private development?

 

The point where the process stands or falls is how the information gets checked and verified after it is submitted, and we are yet to see how that all goes........