Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[ArabiaTerra]

As far as I am aware this is incorrect. The cable is for VE use only.

That's news to me. Does anyone have any references to back this up?

 

If SSE own the cable and it has spare capacity, I'm sure they would make this capacity available to anyone who wanted it (for a fee, of course).

[Caeser]

As far as I am aware this is incorrect. The cable is for VE use only.

That's news to me. Does anyone have any references to back this up?

 

If SSE own the cable and it has spare capacity, I'm sure they would make this capacity available to anyone who wanted it (for a fee, of course).

 

My understanding is that the cable is designed to cope with the capacity of VE. If there is 'spare' capacity then I suppose someone else could use it for a fee. I imagine if the wind is not blowing over VE windmills to create power then it will not be blowing anywhere else on our Isles?

 

If it is blowing and generating plenty of power, then a third party would have to switch off or dump or whatever you do! Third party tidal, solar or wind energy would all be the same.

 

I suspect that any business model which can only get its produce sold occasionally when no one else is, will not be very profitable.

 

I'm with you ArabiaTerra, can someone please confirm or otherwise that I am ill informed and talking mince?

[ArabiaTerra]

The VE site is still down and I can't find any numbers on the SHETL site.

 

My understanding was that there would be spare capacity on the cable though I don't know how much. It does need clarification.

 

Edit: I did find this:

Scottish Hydro Electric Transmission Limited (SHETL) is proposing to install an offshore electricity transmission link from the Shetland Islands to mainland Scotland to connect the proposed 550MW ‘Viking’ windfarm project where Viking Energy and SSE Generation Ltd are

working together as the Viking Energy Partnership (VEP)1 (see Section 1.2). Subject to connections also being made to the existing electrical infrastructure on Shetland and appropriate capacity sizing of the link, the link would also offer the potential to support demand on Shetland and provide access for other renewable developments. The link will largely comprise High Voltage Direct Current (HVDC) elements because of the subsea distance involved.

(my emphasis)

[Styumpie]

My vision of the way a battery backup system could work, it would give continuous power given flat calm conditions for a given time depending on how many cells you go for in parallel, for instance some people might feel entirely comfortable only having 2 days backup, some might want 1 week or more, with each house or building having it's own backup this gives the most cost effective, efficient, cheapest and least wasteful way to suit each persons needs, why have a vast centralised battery capacity for everyone and only ever using a fraction of it, that will be hugely wasteful not to mention expensive, as with most systems they tend to run much more smoothly and tend work far better if efficiency is a main priority in the design.

 

 

I say the critical key is for each end user to have their own reservoir of backup power to suit there own personal needs. And if we had a network of turbines all over the isles, it is extremely rare that the wind falls calm everywhere at the same time, and how often is it calm for more than 3 days in a row everywhere? If we factor in tidal power too we could have a really stable system. I think that so long as hospitals etc buildings of critical importance along with a large battery bank, they could have a back up generator as an emergency supply, and if the extremely rare event that the wind falls calm for longer than we have planned for then declare it as a holiday, we go out and enjoy the fine calm day

[ArabiaTerra]

^^^^ Interesting ^^^^

 

How would you do the generating? Thousands of small turbines (1/house) or a larger Burradale type farm (say 100 turbines) or a mix of the two?

[Styumpie]

I think we could even have tidal generators as a proportion of the generating capacity, on both sides of the islands to give a 24 hr un-interruptible supply and smaller turbine farms dotted around the isles, a bit like the ones at burradale. Obviously the more tidal generation we get, ultimately the more stable the system we get, but we could have very good success with wind only too, a mixture of both, and people with land could start there own small wind developments to feed into the system, so many possibilities once it was developed, it would be extremely cheap to run, and leave us with an extremely low carbon footprint, esp when electric cars become more mainstream. We would be about the greenest place on earth setting a great example. Much more attractive than carving up the islands with these huge turbines.

[ArabiaTerra]

once it was developed, it would be extremely cheap to run, and leave us with an extremely low carbon footprint, esp when electric cars become more mainstream.

This is where I have to disagree. As my (admittedly, very rough) calculations above show, the installation costs would be in the region of £50,000,000. And that money would then be gone, forever, unless you sold the electricity back to us a prohibitive prices.

 

TANSTAAFL, as they say in sf circles.

[Styumpie]

well, if we want something we have to spend on it and some things are just worth spending money on. This is not a profit seeking exercise, this is about having reliable, renewable energy for the foreseeable future, considering Mareel is a luxury and its going to cost into the teens of millions, that money could contribute to giving us all ultra cheap renewable power for many many years to come, I know what I would rather spend it on! the money we all save on our leccy bills will boost other areas of the economy.

[ArabiaTerra]

well, if we want something we have to spend on it, this is not a profit seeking exercise, this is about having reliable, renewable energy for the foreseeable future, considering Mareel is a luxury and its going to cost into the teens of millions, that money could contribute to giving us all ultra cheap renewable power for many many years to come, I know what I would rather spend it on!

But the VE proposal gives you all of that + profit + Mareel.

[Styumpie]

it does not give you cheap electric! and it destroys our tourism, and sanity having to look at these things every day, so I hope you can see at least some potential in this

[Carlos]

Including tidal schemes would make a big difference, as when you have a dependable and predictable source you can reduce the battery capacity to a known figure.

 

The scheme could still work on wind & batteries, but then you have a lot bigger factors of safety to include, so you end up needing more turbine capacity, or more battery capacity, just to be cater for the few bad combinations of weather/demand. Or as you say, you let people choose their own risk of "running dry".....

 

The other factor would be the power distribution network in Shetland.

I'd imagine that at the moment it is not suited at all for having power productions spread out all over the islands and balancing the supply/demand that way - a true power "network".

That is another thing that could be done, at a cost, and that cost is another financial reason that makes centralisation more attractive. Again, if you go with tidal schemes you can probably concentrate them on a few sites enough to get round that problem.

[Styumpie]

Yes, tidal would suit this perfectly, and tidal has allot of potential here, if not more so than wind.

 

I think we would be better with a fair margin more generating capacity than we need, and just dumping the extra, this would reduce the need for larger capacity batteries, where we could harness the excess power i'm not sure, say pumping water up to a loch which can be then generate some hydro power on calm days or the like, or if the tech ever becomes viable, make hydrogen, PURE might the ones to ask etc.

 

We would need to re wire the grid for this, but it is something that would be certainly worth doing I think.

 

also using a battery backup in each building it should lower the stress on the grid as it spreads the load out evenly and gradually. And the same goes for smaller groups of turbines spread out over the isles, Its usually more efficient if the generators are closer to the point of use.

[ArabiaTerra]

Yes, tidal would suit this perfectly, and tidal has allot of potential here, if not more so than wind.

I think you are underestimating the cost of tidal power. An offshore installation, mostly if not all underwater is going to cost way more than the equivalent wind capacity and when it breaks (as mechanical devices always do) you have to lift the whole thing out of the water to fix it. It's true that it is more dependable, but it will also be much more expensive both to build and run.

[Styumpie]

Thats why it is best having a whole range of sources, eggs in one basket comes to mind. Which ever is most cost effective, there is always an optimum for every scale.

 

I know that this could work nicely on community schemes, But there will always be problems to overcome if we want to roll it out into something much larger. So a trial scheme would be a good idea first. I'm going to have my own shot at it anyway

[ArabiaTerra]

I'm not saying your idea is not do-able, just that I think it would end up costing almost as much as the VE proposal with no income generated other than to cover it's running costs and even then we would probably end up paying more for our power than we do now.

 

There was an island in the Western Isles (I can't remember which) that installed a renewable system a couple of years ago to serve around 20 houses which ended up costing around £20,000/household. That's the kind of costs you would be talking about with a full range of back-up systems, and that was just wind and solar with diesel back-up.