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Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy


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AT - excellent post and very well put. I fully agree with your opinion of Shetland's past and potential economic future.

Kavi - apologies if this sounds like a personal attack, but I find it difficult to read your post above without passing comment on what I believe is a completely deluded viewpoint of Shetland and the majority of its inhabitants.

Maybe what I hope for will never happen but in my book what we should be fighting for is a new form of home-rule/control over our seas and land.

 

This would revive Shetland by giving us control of what I believe is Shetland's resources i.e the fishing.

 

I have to say that for a variety of reasons this proposal fills me with dread.

Home rule would imply that the complete governance of the islands would be self contained, with all major economic decisions being made by the equivalent of the existing local authority. It would also imply that Shetland would no longer receive external funding (as is currently provided by Scottish/UK government), and that we would be financially standing on our own two feet.

Given the track record of our local authority over the last twenty years or so, can you honestly say that they would be in a fit and competent position to successfully govern the islands? They have shown time and again how inept they are at making important financial decisions. Even with one of the biggest reserve funds of any local authority in the country they have totally failed to spend it wisely, democratically or efficiently. How long would it take them to bankrupt the place if they had complete control?

Now to the home rule notion itself. That would suggest that Shetland would become a territory similar to the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands. In such a case we could or would be granted territorial waters, which only extend to 12 miles offshore. You mention fishing as Shetland's maritime resource. Well how much fishing takes place within 12 miles of the shore? A handful of whitefish and shellfish boats and a very brief period of pelagic activity for several weeks of the year. Hardly enough to sustain a population of 22,000. Of course oil will get brought up as the saviour to the economy. Are there any oilfields within 12 miles of Shetland? No. We are at the mercy of the oil companies taking oil ashore through Sullom Voe to maintain revenue, but as the larger fields in the East Shetland Basin start to dry up, the viability of more fields come into question in the forthcoming years and technology of extraction improves, why would the companies want to keep Sullom Voe going? They could put a kink in the pipe 13 miles offshore and take it wherever they want, leaving Shetland high and dry of oil and all its associated financial benefits.

 

Now, if we had the sort of home rule that many feel we should have then not only would we be deriving income from our oil and gas fields but there would be a flourishing offshore service sector creating hundreds of jobs.

 

Who are these many people who feel we should have home rule? We've had income from oil and gas and a flourishing offshore service sector offering hundreds of jobs for the past 30 years - what could possibly change under home rule?

 

I don't believe in some "golden age" but what saddens me is that too many of my fellow Shetlanders have no regard at all for Shetland's rich history and are more concerned with getting an extra pound in their pocket or the latest mobile phone.

 

That's hugely unfair on a lot of folk. It's all very well getting misty eyed, thinking about somebody in a Fair Isle gansey playing the fiddle next to the open fire with the bannocks baking as the the wife maks her sock, spinning yarn on the wheel and singing a lullaby to the infant in a cot, but it doesn't put clothes on the bairns, food on the table or fuel in the car, does it? The whole windfarm/independence/home-rule etc argument is about Shetland's future, not the past. To say that people who are trying to secure an economic future for Shetland don't give two hoots about its past is a slightly perverse viewpoint.

 

Apart from care homes and Shetland Arts, what is this "standard of living" that VE waffle on about?.

 

I think that statement sums up how deluded some folk are about the current situation. Standard of living? How many miles of well maintained two lane roads would we have without the current standard of living? How many inter-island ferries would we have without the current standard of living? How many care centres, leisure centres and swimming pools would we have without the current standard of living? Would we still have the lowest unemployment level in the country if we weren't so well off? I guess that unemployment would stay low as everybody will be busy making sixareens again.

 

Does anybody else have this view on where we are with the whole windfarm debate?

I was completely against it when I first saw the scale of it. Too big for Shetland, too invasive visually and too risky financially.

Then I looked at why it was being built. I'm pretty sure that the people behind it aren't a cabal of evil genii in a power base inside a dormant volcano, stroking white cats and laughing hysterically at the CCTV footage of the Market Cross as the people who's money they're spending obliviously go about their business.

The big 'if' with VE is will it deliver what they say. Understandably there are concerns that it won't, that the millions of precious fund millions will disappear down the plug quicker than the council would otherwise spend it.

If it works, Shetland will at least maintain the standard of living we have become accustomed to, it will secure jobs directly and indirectly, and more importantly will secure the financial future of the isles for a generation.

If it doesn't work we'll be millions of pounds down from where we are now, without the promised income from it and with ever dwindling oil reserves.

For a couple of years now I have splinters in my ass from sitting on the fence of the subject, but I have to say now that, in the balance of probability of success against failure, eyesore against income and security and against uncertainty, I am now swinging to support it. I still have huge reservations about parts of it, but when I look for an alternative it is fairly clear to me that there isn't one.

People now are worried and protesting about school closures, ferry cutbacks and financial uncertainty. I now believe that as we sit in a fourth year of global recession with not even a medium term glimmer of hope for recovery, we have to grab any opportunity there is to secure our financial well-being, and accept that sacrifices will have to be made, or we will suffer the consequences for generations. I've changed my mind on the project from negative to slightly positive, has anybody else?

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Im a Shetlander, I did not move here for pretty pictures or to cry about peat and birds, I know what like Shetland was before the oil and the nay sayers who did not want it, I think we should grab the opportunity of the windmills when we can, even if it does annoy da sooth moothers who have come here for retirement. They will be the first wans crying when da old folks homes they like to fill up start going down hill.

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@ SP, seaflech, it hasn't happened(yet) probably because Shetland has had it good for about 30 years now. When a place is flourishing(as in the oil era) then people tend to be content but what the oil era and SIC over-spending has masked is the death of the whitefish fleet.

 

I remember a statistic which said that for every fisherman there were 8 people employed on the shore side(or something along those lines).

 

Also my guess is that each fishing boat would employ a crew of 5-6 which could equate to 5-6 families. Multiply that by, say, 12 boats and you have a couple of hundred people connected to the boats alone.

 

My point is, what the death of the whitefish fishing industry means to Shetland shouldn't be underestimated.

 

I read on the Shetland News yesterday that the latest quota proposals aren't going to do Shetland much favours again which probably means another twist of the screw for what's left of the fleet.

 

Any income from the VE windfarm can't benefit such things as roads etc because that comes from Government funding. It's only the things done through the CT that will benefit.

 

If Shetland makes the mistake of using any of the projected profits from the windfarm for central government services that would set a dangerous precedent and you can bet your last pound that it would result in a reduced settlement from the Scottish Government.

 

Sadly, while being interviewed on Radio Shetland on Thursday night this is exactly what Drew Ratter was saying would happen i.e the CT would take on many of the services that the SIC currently do.

 

I know many people work hard towards preserving Shetland's heritage etc but generally speaking we've spawned a generation which is more interested in the SPL, the latest mobile phone and party buses than what the place-name Tingwall means.......

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Also my guess is that each fishing boat would employ a crew of 5-6 which could equate to 5-6 families. Multiply that by, say, 12 boats and you have a couple of hundred people connected to the boats alone.

 

 

 

A quick google search tells me that Shetland's fishing industry is currently worth over 200 million a year. That equates to over £9000 per head of population. Quite a difference from what you are suggesting here.

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The council does not do fishing, which would mean that the industry is in private hands. The council release all the data you may need to see how many folk are employed. It is all fine and well, but are there buyers? It is wishy washy facts. Boats have been run by families in the past. If it a route you think Shetland should take, work it out, you seem to have the passion Kavi. At the moment you are going through an "Argos" catalogue circling things you want with out any means or will of getting them.

 

How much are you going to set the levy on fishing to gain an income for the council.

 

Until all that is sorted out, Shetland need to keep ahead of things. Being a place that could benefit the whole county and create an income and guarantee that the misty whirls of past life can be tinselled up for the tourists who come.....

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Also my guess is that each fishing boat would employ a crew of 5-6 which could equate to 5-6 families. Multiply that by, say, 12 boats and you have a couple of hundred people connected to the boats alone.

 

 

 

A quick google search tells me that Shetland's fishing industry is currently worth over 200 million a year. That equates to over £9000 per head of population. Quite a difference from what you are suggesting here.

 

That's fair enough - my figures(boat numbers etc) were just used to make my point.

 

What happens if the Shetland whitefish fleet is finally crushed out of existance by the EU?. According to the figure you quote that would be £200 million/£9000 per head gone and X amount of men, families and onshore workers looking for work .....

 

SP, I'm not suggesting it would be an easy road - far from it but do we just sit back and let the men in grey suits(EU/Edinburgh/London) run Shetland into the ground?.

 

The seafood industry has been a phenominal success story and speaks for itself but it's just a shame the white fish picture isn't so prosperous looking.

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With all due respect, SP, it is NOT a Local Authority's job to run businesses; that's partially how messes such as the one Shetland finds itself in regarding the VE fiasco got in, IMHO. A Local Authority can, by all means, encourage businesses to move to their area but it is NOT their remit to be in competition with other businesses, etc. No doubt the lovely Mucklejoannie can explain the finer points. :wink:

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also with due respect. they are not involved with VE. no mess up just scared council members. i suggest you have a look at what the trusts do invest in. the biggest being white fish quotas.

 

Don't make me laugh. Originally, wasn't it the case that the SIC signed the agreement with SSE and then it was pointed out to them they couldn't own a business or something along those lines so then they sold it to the SCT who, in turn, created VE? If that ain't involved then what is? Where do you think all these conflicts of interests come from then eh?

 

Besides, I was actually referring to SP's point about businesses being in private hands.

 

Edit: Why do you think it is being demanded that the Trust be separate from the SIC? It is because there is a blatant conflict of interest IMHO. You can't have Councillors and Trustees making decisions wearing two different caps; each only has one brain! If they were working in a bank, valuer, surveyor, stockbroker, whatever, a Chinese wall would be set up. Yes, the same organisation can have what appear to be a conflict of interest (Smith & Jones plc advise Mr Bloggs and also Mr Moneybags but Mr Smith couldn't advise both of them on the same project but individually, Mr Smith could advise say Mr Bloggs and Mr Jones advise Mr Moneybags).

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Councils do run a business, I am part of that business. So your statement is quite wrong. A council can of course run a business.

 

I wonder how US statement will measure up when councils take over the running of PCTs. It is happening here. The council will have to act as a business, it will be in competition with other providers.

 

Alas, the business of the day is now getting the most from VE to support Shetland, including all the population, whether born there or moved there. The comment about southerners taking up beds in care homes? You may find they pay!

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Councils do run a business, I am part of that business. So your statement is quite wrong. A council can of course run a business.

 

I wonder how US statement will measure up when councils take over the running of PCTs. It is happening here. The council will have to act as a business, it will be in competition with other providers.

 

Alas, the business of the day is now getting the most from VE to support Shetland, including all the population, whether born there or moved there. The comment about southerners taking up beds in care homes? You may find they pay!

 

You are being a tad disingenuous with the true position, are you not, SP? You referred to businesses being in private hands; that is DIFFERENT to running a business. One could argue that a Council's daily transactions are "business". Is it not the case that the EU states that a Council can ONLY own a business if it is not in competition with another that could provide the same? PCTs and NHS Trusts are not, for example, listed on the stock exchange and whilst they are in competition with each other to provide services, they are within the public sector, not the private sector.

 

If one was to adopt your argument, then there would have been no need for the SIC to sell Viking to SCT, now would there?

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also with due respect. they are not involved with VE. no mess up just scared council members. i suggest you have a look at what the trusts do invest in. the biggest being white fish quotas.

 

Don't make me laugh. Originally, wasn't it the case that the SIC signed the agreement with SSE and then it was pointed out to them they couldn't own a business or something along those lines so then they sold it to the SCT who, in turn, created VE? If that ain't involved then what is? Where do you think all these conflicts of interests come from then eh?

 

Besides, I was actually referring to SP's point about businesses being in private hands.

 

Edit: Why do you think it is being demanded that the Trust be separate from the SIC? It is because there is a blatant conflict of interest IMHO. You can't have Councillors and Trustees making decisions wearing two different caps; each only has one brain! If they were working in a bank, valuer, surveyor, stockbroker, whatever, a Chinese wall would be set up. Yes, the same organisation can have what appear to be a conflict of interest (Smith & Jones plc advise Mr Bloggs and also Mr Moneybags but Mr Smith couldn't advise both of them on the same project but individually, Mr Smith could advise say Mr Bloggs and Mr Jones advise Mr Moneybags).

 

Yoy will recall that the way SCT currently is set up is exactly as it was wanted. However, since then the Law has changed, it realistically can not now be operated as Charity organisation like it used to. I think it is time to bite the bullet, cease being a Charity and be clear of Edinburgh interferrence in how Shetland decides to spend its money. Of course that is another debate, completely separate from VE.

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Yoy will recall that the way SCT currently is set up is exactly as it was wanted. However, since then the Law has changed, it realistically can not now be operated as Charity organisation like it used to. I think it is time to bite the bullet, cease being a Charity and be clear of Edinburgh interferrence in how Shetland decides to spend its money. Of course that is another debate, completely separate from VE.

 

If the SCT ceased being a charity OSCR would take over and that would be the last we see of our money.

 

This is how I see Viking Energy affecting the Shetland economy. It will just reinforce Shetland as a third world economy. adding to the natural resources (wind, fish, oil) we export for others to add value. It gives us a comfortable first world life style but others down the line make the real profits. Getting income from VE will just reinforce the dependency culture here. The actual amount of labour to be put in is minute compared to the projected profits and there will be a small service economy based on the upkeep of the windmills. The main benefit will be the profits being doled out to what are considered worthwhile projects (worthwhile to the donor that is).

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I work for the commercial side of the council. That is, we need to break even at least. We bid against other suppliers. It is quite possible for the council to do this, as they are.

We work with, and against other suppliers. I have worked on many private ventures within my role.

I also remember the comment about the fishing is generally in the private sector. Councils don't do fishing. I think that is what I said.

 

The best has to be made of the deal, like it or not. There is not the will really to do anything about it as folk are, at heart complacent. Small groups do spout. I have found it here that most of the protesters do not come from here when they turn up meeting after meeting trying to dictate to the council that they should change their rules to suit just them. Their agenda is to stifle ANY turbine, costing small businesses thousands in employing agents. Many need the income to survive the current economic climate. Many will never see the micro generators.

 

Yet, still, what is the suggestion in the meantime while Shetland waits for Scottish independence, then to break away, leave the EU, then to fish in the small amount of water left. Let us hope the fish stay in one place, until they are all caught.

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