Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[ArabiaTerra]

Sorry AT but your wrong and MJ is right our local grid will be just a spur on the national grid unless it is way upgraded That is why no more schemes are allowed just now.

 

No more schemes are allowed just now because we don't have the interconnector.

 

Its like the hydro upgrading your cable into the meter, it does not mean you can add anything you want to your ring mains or lighting circuits

if its near capacity.

 

The Interconnector is the upgrade. Once we're connected, we're part of the grid.

[peenk]

Reading this the future looks very uncertain (and non-existent for the next ten years anyway) for the interconnector and wind farm.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=uk%20transmission%20charges%20on%20small%20scale%20wind&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.publications.parliament.uk%2Fpa%2Fld200708%2Fldselect%2Fldeconaf%2F195%2F19507.htm&ei=dacSUbmkD8-S0QWkuICwBA&usg=AFQjCNG05Wm5b-w_GxLVsQL-SiMk7mKFbQ

[ArabiaTerra]

Reading this the future looks very uncertain (and non-existent for the next ten years anyway) for the interconnector and wind farm.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=uk%20transmission%20charges%20on%20small%20scale%20wind&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.publications.parliament.uk%2Fpa%2Fld200708%2Fldselect%2Fldeconaf%2F195%2F19507.htm&ei=dacSUbmkD8-S0QWkuICwBA&usg=AFQjCNG05Wm5b-w_GxLVsQL-SiMk7mKFbQ

 

Here's the thing, Peenk...

 

Nobody has ever suggested that wind power is going to be the sole source of renewable energy in the future. It will be combined with solar, tidal, hydro, wave, nuclear, and some measure of power storage. Also big improvements need to be made in reducing demand such as better insulation, more efficient appliances etc.

 

At the moment, however, wind is the source which is most commercially viable, so it makes sense to build wind first. This is what we're doing. Solar is also rapidly approaching commercial viability and is being installed in increasingly large volumes.

 

Another piece of the jigsaw is the Europe wide supergrid which is proposed. This would give us access to export markets all over Europe when our windmills are running at overcapacity, and to storage systems like the Norwegian pumped-storage and French nuclear when the wind isn't blowing. While we may have to build much more nameplate capacity than required to make wind work on a UK scale, once the supergrid is up and running, we will have a market to soak up the output of this overcapacity when the wind is blowing, and access to storage and nuclear baseload when the wind isn't blowing.

 

There's also a proposal to build an interconnector to Iceland to bring their geo-thermal into the mix and other proposals to cross the Med and build huge solar stations in the Sahara.

 

More info on the supergrid can be found here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_super_grid

 

The most comprehensive study has been carried out by Dr Gregor Czish, of Kassel University.[2][3] His study optimised a vast grid covering North Africa, Eastern Europe, Norway, and Iceland. His study ran a number of scenarios, wind, csp, nuclear etc., and the optimisation showed that all European power could largely come from wind energy, with releatively low amounts of combustion plant needed during universal low wind periods. Furthermore the study showed that no new storage would be required. Existing hydro is sufficient. The total cost, including for new combustion plant, fuelled by biomass, the cost of the interconnections, the inefficiency of starting and stopping the combustion plant, all indicated a power price at the same as Germany was paying in 2005.

 

(My emphasis)

 

As long as the external costs of burning fossil fuels (eg: Climate Change) are left out of the economic cost of extracting and using them, they will always be cheaper than non-fossil fuel energy sources. But this is irrelevant. The debate is not about the cheapest method of energy generation, it is about saving the planet. The only point at which economics comes into the debate is the argument about which is the cheapest way to save the planet.

 

Because fossil fuels are the source of the problem, they are off the table before you even start.

[unlinkedstudent]

But yet again, AT fails to mention that other European countries have windfarms too and hydro so why on earth would they buy from us when it is cheaper to buy in-house, so to speak? AT also fails to mention that the trial interconnector from UK to Europe is a likkle one.

 

But then, we must have discussed this about oh I dunno, 10/20/30 pages back?

 

As for the talk of Shetland's network needing upgrading and we need the interconnector in order to do this - crap. What utter cack.

[Colin]

it is about saving the planet. The only point at which economics comes into the debate is the argument about which is the cheapest way to save the planet.

 

Yeah? and nobody said we couldn't make a few quid along the way...

[paulb]

But yet again, AT fails to mention that other European countries have windfarms too and hydro so why on earth would they buy from us when it is cheaper to buy in-house, so to speak? AT also fails to mention that the trial interconnector from UK to Europe is a likkle one.

 

But then, we must have discussed this about oh I dunno, 10/20/30 pages back?

 

As for the talk of Shetland's network needing upgrading and we need the interconnector in order to do this - crap. What utter cack.

 

2000mw is not likkle. unlink without the upgrade then shetland can not benifit from any renewable power. you may feel this is fine but its not.

 

micro generation is the way that people are going you have to face it when every house has its own generating capacity we will need a very modern and flexible grid. what we have is not that.

[paulb]

it is about saving the planet. The only point at which economics comes into the debate is the argument about which is the cheapest way to save the planet.

 

Yeah? and nobody said we couldn't make a few quid along the way...

 

quite right colin we can be green and earn.

[peenk]

I could not be bothered to read your long winded waffle.

What I am trying to point out is Shetland is not viable for green energy (

Its all a matter of economics and SSE are held to their shareholders. The interconnector is just too expensive and in 10 years will just be silly.

If it was so viable you can rest assured SSE would have gone it alone

[Colin]

quite right colin we can be green and earn.

 

Sorry, I was being sarcastic.... 'Earning' at the expense of all other considerations is one of the things that has got the planet into a mess in the first place.

VE is, basically, founded on the 'need' to earn a little more and, IMHO, is not a 'Green' project in so much as a lot of 'damage' would have to be done elsewhere (extracting rare earth metals etc.) to make it work.

 

Now, if somebody can come up with a scheme to produce 'environmentally friendly' electricity without having a queue of parasitic shareholders waiting with their hands out.....

[stilldellin]

^ and ^^ Thank heevens for da last two posts, some realism at last......

[Ghostrider]

@ Coyote

 

Viking Energy has nothing to do with self reliance and everything about grabbing a quick buck by jumping on a band wagon. Viking themselves admit all the power will be exported.

 

Without Viking, we weon't get the interconnector. Without the interconnector, we won't get tidal energy generators. The amount of energy moving through Bluemull Sound twice a day is immense. If we can harness that and export it south, it's a completely reliable source of power that could be exported and generate huge revenues for the islands for generations to come.

 

Bluemull runs to an approx max of 7 knots, Corryvreckan runs to an approx max 8.5 knots, and is a damn sight nearer to the central belt. But why stop there, the Foula Shaalds runs to an approx max 12 knots. I wish anybody good luck in trying to anchor anything in any of those, or similar locations and have a realistic chance of it an its umbilical gubbins staying there any length of time. Rather them than me.

 

I'd agree that tidal is the smartest way to go, but there needs to be outside the box thinking afoot IMHO. Its easy to see the potential of generation by planting some sort of mechanical "harvesting device" within a visible tide race, working model demonstrations not required. But I doubt technology and engineering is anywhere near close, or will be for quite some time, to constructing, installing and maintaining constantly on location and producing such a harvesting device.

 

More needs to be done harnessing tidal from other lower stress easier access alternatives, which I'd say Shetland is quite conveniently situated for.

[Fatal Paper Cut]

Bluemull runs to an approx max of 7 knots, Corryvreckan runs to an approx max 8.5 knots, and is a damn sight nearer to the central belt. But why stop there, the Foula Shaalds runs to an approx max 12 knots. I wish anybody good luck in trying to anchor anything in any of those, or similar locations and have a realistic chance of it an its umbilical gubbins staying there any length of time. Rather them than me.

 

I'd agree that tidal is the smartest way to go, but there needs to be outside the box thinking afoot IMHO. Its easy to see the potential of generation by planting some sort of mechanical "harvesting device" within a visible tide race, working model demonstrations not required. But I doubt technology and engineering is anywhere near close, or will be for quite some time, to constructing, installing and maintaining constantly on location and producing such a harvesting device.

 

More needs to be done harnessing tidal from other lower stress easier access alternatives, which I'd say Shetland is quite conveniently situated for.

 

I'm not sure I'd like to try and anchor anything at the Shaalds of Foula either, given how quickly is broke up a certain transatlantic-sized white Star liner

 

Still, in time, that might become viable. And it would certainly provide plenty of power. Tidal power generation is unfortunately still quite far behind other renewables. However, with our of-shore marine expertise and plenty of potential locations, Shetland could be well-poised to become something of a test-bed for marine energy. Join it up with the NAFC for teaching, engineering firms like Malakoff, etc - it could be a really good growth industry here. But, like I said, we're only likely to get the interconnector if we get the windfarm, and we won't get tidal if we don't get the interconnector. It's swings and roundabouts. That said, I still don't see how excavating massive amounts of peat in the Lang Kames is any worse than the massive amounts that've been dug up at Sullom for Total.

[Fatal Paper Cut]

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/newsbites/6299-burradale-not-for-sale

[paulb]

drats no free concrete boots. however they would say that if they were.

[unlinkedstudent]

^^ Shame they can't be so quick on providing more up-to-date figures re capacity as opposed to the old data they display on their website and also explaining why they host the Viking Energy website though.

 

Still, nice to know it hasn't been sold to the Italians.