Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

[Re 3 posts back]... Correct me if I'm wrong but are you not confusing generator/ supplier costs (BT/ VE) with consumer costs. I might pay the same unit cost for my phone line or electricity as someone living on mainland UK, but the production/ maintenance costs for the respective supplier will vary according to location/ distance to consumer. I'm guessing the principal is broadly the same for any industry.

[paulb]

we are charged more for our power than the mainland of the uk.

 

england

Unit Rate 13.15p

Annual standing charge £54

(or 14.80p per day)

 

our price

Unit Rate 14.17p

Annual standing charge £54

 

were charged 1 p more per unit

 

so a

low user would be paying roughly £21 a year more

a medium user would be paying £33 a year more

a high user would be paying £51 a year more

 

this is using scottish hydro and sse as an example.

 

so if viking was built and the interconnector would we get the same or cheaper power

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

You're missing the point. The previous argument compared the unit cost of production/ transmission with the unit cost to the consumer. It's not a valid comparison.

[ArabiaTerra]

Soooo Westminster talking of lowering transmission charges ... err but if Scotland goes independent, it wouldn't be down to them. I think this letter sums it up rather nicely:-

 

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/letters/6790-power-to-the-isles

 

Unlinked, John Tulloch is a climate change denier who has been promoting the lies of the denier industry in the Shetland News for years. It doesn't matter how often you point out his mistakes, he learns nothing. He's ideologically opposed to renewable energy and, here, is just stirring the sh*t for the sake of it.

 

The integrated UK grid he mentions is actually being expanded and there are plans in progress to build an integrated European Supergrid possibly extending as far as Iceland. The idea that England would cut the cables at the border if Scotland voted for Independence is nonsense.

 

[Re 3 posts back]... Correct me if I'm wrong but are you not confusing generator/ supplier costs (BT/ VE) with consumer costs. I might pay the same unit cost for my phone line or electricity as someone living on mainland UK, but the production/ maintenance costs for the respective supplier will vary according to location/ distance to consumer. I'm guessing the principal is broadly the same for any industry.

 

Well, it all comes down to consumer cost in the end anyway, doesn't it?

 

If you get your power from SSE for instance, then any charges SSE pay to the National Grid for use of their network will be incorporated into your bill. It's the way those charges are imposed on the generating companies that we're discussing

 

The costs of maintaining BT's communications network will vary wildly across the network ranging from cheap in city centres to very expensive for isolated rural areas.

 

It's the same for the Electricity grid.

 

Yet BT's network works fine with a flat charge made to all users. Why can't the same principle work for the power grid?

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

From a consumers perspective it does. paul's example shows this well. Shetland is not part of MITS, and connecting it and paying for that connection is an industry problem and that is different from how consumer prices are set and/ or regulated.

 

You still seem to be confusing cost of production with cost to the consumer. It's different. Clothing made in China might be cheaper to manufacture, but when sold in the UK at a competitive price be more profitable.

[unlinkedstudent]

The integrated UK grid he mentions is actually being expanded and there are plans in progress to build an integrated European Supergrid possibly extending as far as Iceland. The idea that England would cut the cables at the border if Scotland voted for Independence is nonsense.

 

And hasn't part of that supergrid already fallen to the wayside? Didn't Norway pull out? Whilst you may disagree with the author's suggestions, wouldn't it be fair to say that there is nothing at this stage in the game to say what would happen after independence? Why would England pay for it when they could buy energy from Ireland? Can Scotland afford to pay for it?

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

 

The costs of maintaining BT's communications network will vary wildly across the network ranging from cheap in city centres to very expensive for isolated rural areas.

 

It's the same for the Electricity grid.

 

 

Yes, you are correct. Both industries are faced with similar challenges. It's the same as you say. It's fair.

[ArabiaTerra]

The integrated UK grid he mentions is actually being expanded and there are plans in progress to build an integrated European Supergrid possibly extending as far as Iceland. The idea that England would cut the cables at the border if Scotland voted for Independence is nonsense.

 

And hasn't part of that supergrid already fallen to the wayside? Didn't Norway pull out?

 

I haven't heard anything to that effect. Would you care to provide a reference?

 

Whilst you may disagree with the author's suggestions, wouldn't it be fair to say that there is nothing at this stage in the game to say what would happen after independence? Why would England pay for it when they could buy energy from Ireland? Can Scotland afford to pay for it?

 

No it would not be fair to say. The idea that the National Grid would rip it's integrated network in half just to spite the Nats is patently ludicrous, unlinked.

 

You're trolling this thread now just like you do so many others.

 

Stop it.

[ArabiaTerra]

From a consumers perspective it does. paul's example shows this well. Shetland is not part of MITS, and connecting it and paying for that connection is an industry problem and that is different from how consumer prices are set and/ or regulated.

 

You still seem to be confusing cost of production with cost to the consumer. It's different. Clothing made in China might be cheaper to manufacture, but when sold in the UK at a competitive price be more profitable.

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

[Wheelsup]

Its not only the transmission charge, as far as I understand it? Is it not also the real cost of running a cable to Scotland thats prohibitive?

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

From a consumers perspective it does. paul's example shows this well. Shetland is not part of MITS, and connecting it and paying for that connection is an industry problem and that is different from how consumer prices are set and/ or regulated.

 

You still seem to be confusing cost of production with cost to the consumer. It's different. Clothing made in China might be cheaper to manufacture, but when sold in the UK at a competitive price be more profitable.

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

 

That clearly is the problem!

 

I'm trying to explain that you are making a false analogy. You are comparing apples with oranges. The items are incomparable. So your argument about flat grid connection / transmission charges is invalid.

[stilldellin]

Its not only the transmission charge, as far as I understand it? Is it not also the real cost of running a cable to Scotland thats prohibitive?

Absolutely, there seems to be a thought train here that you can run cost comparisons between a solid copper inter-connector power cable and a fibre optic telecoms cable !

We keep hearing about " windy " Shetland, we should be asking the question as to why the Danes have not lobbed in a HVDC inter-connector to the much windier Faroe Islands and plastered the mountains of Faroe with turbines.

[merkin]

I could not help but notice the latest public rant by JW on the shetland News website.

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/letters/6801-sabotage-of-local-public-interests

 

It does nothing to enhance his reputation as a senior councillor or a responsible? Trustee.

 

Again he bangs on about Trustees taking the 'best possible' advice before making a descision. I seem to remember, not so long ago, that the Trustees decided to ignore the advice of the Councils own Planning Department who recommended refusal of the VE planning application. What does that say about how Trustees / Councillors regard the competence of their own officials?

One consequence of ignoring that advice is alresdy evident. Had they followed this advice the likley hood is that a Public enquiry would have been triggered. The windfarm debate would have been properly brought into the open public domain which woud have been no bad thing; AND he would not now have the 'evil saboteurs' from Sustainable Shetland in the High Court trying to achieve the exact same thing.

We must hope that there are no more serious consequences (particularly for the environment of Shetland) waiting to hit us in the future.

[Ghostrider]

Whilst you may disagree with the author's suggestions, wouldn't it be fair to say that there is nothing at this stage in the game to say what would happen after independence? Why would England pay for it when they could buy energy from Ireland? Can Scotland afford to pay for it?

 

No it would not be fair to say. The idea that the National Grid would rip it's integrated network in half just to spite the Nats is patently ludicrous, unlinked.

 

You're trolling this thread now just like you do so many others.

 

Stop it.

 

Gross oversimplification and missing several legitimate "known unknowns".

 

Should independence occur there is no way of knowing at this stage what the political or economic climate may be in either nation compared to the other, nor the relationship between them. Whilst it may appear not make any kind of sense for the National Grid to change *if* things remain generally as at present, it is arguably somewhat rash to just assume that anything in either nation will continue without change that could be an influencial factor for the Grid.

 

We are talking two independent nations divided by a common border, each being taken wherever those ruling it decide to or let it. Political disord, economic disparity etc and everything else that ensues from such things cannot be ruled out, and any enterprise involved in cross border trade does so at their own risk and possible peril.

 

Few nations have attained independence without the political and economic upsets from bumps and potholes in the road in the aftermath of achieving it, why would Scotland be expected to be an exception.

[paulb]

the best example must now be the NI and Irish republic. the are independent of each other yet they have a totally open boarder.