Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[Kavi Ugl]

Did anybody else hear Public Platform on Radio Shetland last night?. James McKenzie and Chris Bunyon were the two guests.

 

It was polite and even-handed but you could cut the atmosphere with a knife.

 

It was also heart-breaking though.

 

James McKenzie asked why the other guest wasn't someone from Viking Energy to which Radio Shetland said they had asked for this but VE felt it wouldn't be appropriate incase they faced further legal challenges.

 

The Scottish Energy Minister, Fergus Ewan, was on holiday and wasn't contactable. Edward Davey Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change wasn't available for comment nor was anybody else!.

 

James McKenzie spoke eloquently about the destruction it will cause and what it will mean for people living in/beside it.

 

Chris Bunyon spoke about how we heal the community divide and about the money VE could make.

 

However, and without being biased, as the debate went on James McKenzie very shrewdly picked up on the fact that it's all about money.

 

He also put forward the very succinct fact that the CT's investment will be over £300 Million when the CT funds aren't even that much which means they'll use every single penny and then have to borrow the rest.

 

Interestingly, Chris Bunyon pointed out that the CT still has to make a final decision on whether to invest or not and if the figures/advice presented to them is in the negative then they would obviously vote against it.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Kavi Ugl

[paulb]

will listen to it i missed it. you don't need a mock up there will be 2 near the tip in the near future.

Edited July 11, 2014 by paulb

[JustMe]

Do not recall either of them answering the point that if there is a Yes vote in September then there is nothing to stop the electricity companies deciding not to buy energy from Scotland.  And I heard nothing about the comparative costs of offshore wind farms compared with building them onshore in Shetland.  Nor was there any mention that with improving technology for tidal energy that could be the way forward.  Not saying I am against Viking Energy but the issues I have mentioned need to be considered.

 

Just for myself I would also like to hear a bit more about alternative types of aero generator.  This http://www.global-greenhouse-warming.com/maglev-wind-generator.html comes to mind.

[Colin]

What gets me going about the whole business is that there are people out there who have lain awake at night, for years, trying to figure a way to get hold of 'Shetland's Millions' and, now we are doing the job for them.

 

Another thing to consider is that energy prices are artificially high due to government 'messing' and, a percentage of every bill is used to subsidise 'green'(?) energy that isn't 'green' at all once you look into it. 

This particular scheme can only last as long as the public (often overlooked by the politicians) are willing(?) to pay through the nose for it. 

What happens when 'joe public' calls "enough"?

 

Wind farms must be the best reason for 'going nuclear' yet...

[paulb]

colin the nuclear option is much more expensive. 

[Ghostrider]

Another thing to consider is that energy prices are artificially high due to government 'messing' and, a percentage of every bill is used to subsidise 'green'(?) energy that isn't 'green' at all once you look into it. 

This particular scheme can only last as long as the public (often overlooked by the politicians) are willing(?) to pay through the nose for it. 

What happens when 'joe public' calls "enough"?

 

Exactly. Any industry that is part financed by a permanent subsidy is an inherently dubious investment. The subsidy provider, especially if they are a political entity can, have and will fiddle with it as they see fit based wholly on irrelevant to the subject issues such as election outcomes, political point scoring and the like.

 

Last I checked, and if the old memory box is still worth a sh*t, every electric connection in Shetland is, and has been paying for some years something like 5% of every bill towards bankrolling windmills. In the first place, that means off the first end of this estimated £30 Million per annum the SCT are "expecting" to receive, the total of all those 5%'s we've paid over however many years its been running, and all the 5%'s we will probably pay between now and at least 2019, when VE is "estimated" to start producing, are standing there on a "balance sheet" of outstanding outgoings for Shetland, and it will only be a case of us getting our money back untill that sum is covered, not a clean profit. Secondly, *if* as will inevitably will occur, the subsidies to windmills are stopped, curtailed, amended etc, (remember there have already been moves in that direction by this Government a year or so back - and it will have to happen, do the maths of input vs. output that finances the subsidy.....), the best case scenario is that this estimated £30 Million for the SCT will drop by 5%, which makes it £28.5 Million instead. In all liklihood however, based on previous downward restructuring in other government supported sectors, there will be a period of upheaval during which prices and market conditions will fluctuate significantly while it finds its actual commercial value in the new free or freer marketplace.

 

Arguably the public are close to reaching the "enough" stage with energy prices, unless its all anti-Government propaganda driven by media factions, the numbers who are being forced to curtail their energy usage, or at least feel forced to choose to curtail their energy usage, are growing steadily by the day. It can only be a matter of a relatively short time before it becomes an issue where the deciding factor is political mileage or survival and the musical chairs starts up properly.

 

 

Whichever way you look at VE, it doesn't have a pretty view. "Learn from history, or you're doomed to repeat the same mistakes" is usually seen as sage advice. History tells up any "new" industry will have early "boom" years, followed by a "consolidation" period, early players in the "boom" phase make a mint, later entrants get by, last entrants prior to the consolidation stage are lucky to get out with their shirt on their backs. Its difficult to see windmills as being anywhere but in the last throes of the "boom" stage or in to "consolidation" stage right now. Early players have been cashing it in for years, gotten their original money back and are now cashing in on investments made using their earlier profits - in other words they're earning from money they can afford to lose, as if it all went belly up tomorrow, they'd still be better off than they were when they started out. Yet, here's us talking committing silly money, with no return for 5 years, if we're lucky we might just about get bye come this stage of the game, more likely the best we can hope for is get out before we lose too much.

 

Viking was too controversial, too complex, and relied on too many *if's* to fly given how late in the game it was conceived, Shetland missed the boat on windmills, its as simple as that. Its a turkey, and Christmas is long gone.

 

Far better we sit this one out, keep our money, and pay very close attention to the next big thing to come along, and get in at the beginning. Meanwhile, *if* the SCT are so keen to invest directly in to local industry as opposed to their long standing "safe" investments on the market, perhaps if they hadn't be so mesmerised by deluded visions of fivers and tenners flying through the air off turbine blades, they could have attempted to enter in to serious negotiations with several successful local enterprises who have changed hands and/or negotiated fresh investment in recent years. Places like HBP, or Shetland Catch, which I am now led to believe is majority owned by Norskies, or the Altaire which I'm likewise led to believe is majority owned by the Dutch. I very seriously doubt either lot came across the North Sea waving cheque books on the forecast of as little as 7.5% return on their investments.

[MuckleJoannie]

Wnder of its too late to erect a full-sized mock-p windmill on top the Staney Hill to show people just massive and how tall these windmills are going to be. Being so close to Lerwick it will maybe help others think twice about the whole scheme and just how huge it is.

They're working on getting two turbines up now. More details from the SIC Planning dept here

 

http://pa.shetland.gov.uk/online-applications/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage

[Ghostrider]

By the power invested in me by the God that is Google, with a bit of help from a post by stilldellin waay back in April 2012 on page 259 or therabouts.....A mock up of only one, but in a very familiar view, in all of its 475ft/175m glory!

 

Just apply imagination and multiply by 103, and Robert is a brother of your parent.

 

 

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb479/beenister/turbine_bressay.jpg

Edited July 11, 2014 by Ghostrider

[Kavi Ugl]

I'd like tae see yon withstand a hurricane in January.

[paulb]

they will. first part of the cable run has been approved. ps the turbines wont be on the top of the  hills cut say a 3rd off. 

[Ghostrider]

ps the turbines wont be on the top of the  hills cut say a 3rd off. 

 

If you have a map clearly showing this, being able to see it would be very helpful. As it is the maps I'm finding available online are so small its virtually impossible to tell. However from what I can make out, the line of eleven pretty much follows the ridge of the Kames, and there's numerous others which if they aren't at peaks, are close enough to make little difference. Remember also, that hills are rarely uniform, and whether or not something is "on top" relies on where you view it from as much as anything else. A windmill at the Lerwick waterworks would be on top of the hill from the town, but in the bottom of a valley from the Shurton Brae.

[Ian_H]

.... you don't need a mock up there will be 2 near the tip in the near future.

Actually 3, if you are thinking of the SSE project for Gremista. Had a look at da proposals to compare with Viking.

 

Using hub height, as the tower is the most substantial and visible part of the turbine, they are; SSE Gremista– 80m; Viking – 90m. So while Gremista isn’t quite as tall as Viking, most folk looking from a distance would struggle to tell which was which unless the towers were alongside each other in a flat field. For comparison, from what I could find online, Burradale appears to be 45m hub height.

 

If you want total height to blade tip, then add on blade length of 41m, 55m or 26m respectively. To be more sensational, after adding these values together, convert them to feet.

It was interesting looking at the Gremista windfarm planning approval. The 3 turbines in that application will be slightly smaller than those proposed for Viking, but not by much. The plans show that they will be visible to about half of Lerwick, and very visible from Califf & Breiwick, and the north end of Bressay. A number of industrial areas/ offices in the Gremista/ Green Head area are less than 1km away; most Califf & Breiwick houses, as well as a few in the north end of Lerwick and one in Bressay are within 2km.

 

So were there wild shouts of protest when that planning application came up? Well no, without a concerted effort to generate fear and alarm there were no objections and it was quietly approved 2 plus years ago without any controversy.

[Ghostrider]

It was interesting looking at the Gremista windfarm planning approval. The 3 turbines in that application will be slightly smaller than those proposed for Viking, but not by much. The plans show that they will be visible to about half of Lerwick, and very visible from Califf & Breiwick, and the north end of Bressay. A number of industrial areas/ offices in the Gremista/ Green Head area are less than 1km away; most Califf & Breiwick houses, as well as a few in the north end of Lerwick and one in Bressay are within 2km.

 

So were there wild shouts of protest when that planning application came up? Well no, without a concerted effort to generate fear and alarm there were no objections and it was quietly approved 2 plus years ago without any controversy.

 

As best as I can recall, there's little or no public funds being poured in to them, and they're in the already "industrialised" "central belt" where there are already windmills.

 

As I've said on this thread before, crowd them as thick as they can stand on the hills around the toon, keep public money out of it, and I'll have little issue with Viking.

[Ian_H]

Yes, pretty much "industrialised" whar dey will be standing, bit I winna say dat fur whar dey are seen fae.

 

No CT money as far as I know, but we will contribute to them in wir electricity bills - although no as much as we all contribute to offshore wind power.

[paulb]

we will be paying more for those 3 as we wont be reciving any payments for production. and if we are going to go on about subsidies remember our power supply is subsidized a lot by other  sse customers.