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Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy


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So you're saying that between 40 minutes to 3 hours flicker a day is acceptable?  That link is to a shadow map.  Where does it indicate the allowance for 'bouncing shadows' off a loch, or off another hill?  You don't need to be within 840m to experience the effects of flicker.  Care to define "real flicker"?  An annoyance is an annoyance, whether said turbine blade rotates at a slow speed or a fast speed.  So if a light switch was turned off every 5 seconds or every 15 seconds, there would still be a difference in the light in the room.

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for pity sake. the shadow is the area were the flicker could be. they have doubled the distance of the maximum shadow. there is no houses that fall within the real shadow range and only 2 that fall within vikings 1100metres buffer. the half way house is even outside the viking zone which surprised even me. so like the whimble case the flicker one is another red herring. and no red herrings are not affected by the sound of the sea or shadows. 

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 i could post the maths but i dont think it would help lots of algebra.

 

A pretty grandiose statement that sounds like a bit of a 'cop out' to me.

 

Proclaiming (by default) that you are savvy enough to understand them and, that the rest of us are not leads me to think that you are, possibly, afraid of being 'called out' to explain them.  Could you?

 

Algebra is a wonderful tool but, tends to be 'misused' a bit to try and prove things.  It is also used to try and subdue those who 'don't have a clue about it'.

 

The whole VE debate is full of 'red herrings' when the only thing that really matters is 'what is it going to cost us?' and, so far, I have seen nothing that convinces me of the long term benefits of ploughing every last penny we have into a 'ponzi scheme' whose 'profits' are based solely on enforced (via the generating companies->FIT etc.) government subsidies.

 

It's all 'smoke and mirrors' promoted by 'snake oil' salesmen just to meet government 'targets'.

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for pity sake. the shadow is the area were the flicker could be. they have doubled the distance of the maximum shadow. there is no houses that fall within the real shadow range and only 2 that fall within vikings 1100metres buffer. the half way house is even outside the viking zone which surprised even me. so like the whimble case the flicker one is another red herring. and no red herrings are not affected by the sound of the sea or shadows. 

 

Wait for a full moon, take a 5p coin, hold it at arms length between you and the moon.  Hey, where did the moon go?

 

You don't need shadows or short distances to be aware of flicker.  The 'mark 1 eyeball' is a remarkably sensitive device.

 

Furthermore, the sun on shetland can spend a fair bit of time close to the horizon and, if the blades are between you and the sun, you will be aware of 'flicker' at much greater distances.

I'm not saying that this is a problem but, I am aware that some (possibly a majority) might find this disturbing.

 

I don't really care what 'rainbow chasers' from yorkshire, or anywhere else, have to say of their personal experiences.  You have to live here to understand that things are a bit different.

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nope cant understand them at all/ when maths switches to letters and funny symbols it sales over my head.

 

now it seems that the scottish and british governments are keen to install our little wire under the sea. then the risks sort of vanish. once they are built they will produce a lot of energy and that will be guaranteed. banks are very happy to lend for this project as its a no brainer. now if those said governments want to pay for the interconnected even better.

 

wind generation is not a con its now quite mature and thats why there are so many privately owned farms. so its ok to guarantee 50 years of payments for new nuclear or the north of scotland to save you 1200 a year. but if the wicked wind industry get a penny then its so wrong/ even the flipping gas and oil companies get big tax perks to keep pumping out the stuff.all energy gets money given to it big deal. the average pay back for a farm is 5 to 7 years if you think thats bad then keep out of banks and the stockmarket.

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no flicker south of the 1/2 way house. your 5 p just is not realistic. get a 6ft fencing panel angle it at say 45 degrees even right in front of the sun at 1.2 km you dont have a problem.

 

Not realistic?  You do realise that the very same 5p would also block out the sun?  Sure, at just a metre or so, it would not make any difference to the general surrounding light levels but, you would have to be blind not to notice that something had impeded your vision.

Now, if you could spin the coin at arms length, you would have quite a noticeable 'flicker'.

 

I would argue that your 6ft fencing post was unrealistic and wrong at every level. 

 

First, it's not a couple of hundred feet high.

Second, you wouldn't even see it on the horizon, setting sun or not..

Third.  It isn't moving and, therefore, doesn't generate any 'flicker'.

Do I need to go on?

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It is a right pain though when the sun is behind a fence on a hill and you're driving through the valley.  Oh nooooos, I mentioned driving ... flicker on roads?

 

paulb, you never seen the reflections of the moon on the sea?  You can end up with more than one reflection of the moon.  That's what I mean about flicker on the lochs and it can reflect off the loch.

 

Ghostie has described  a 'mirage' of boats at sea in sunshine being reflected in fog on the other side of a hill (so the boats at sea actually appeared to be on land); did the flicker shadow survey take that weather scenario into account then?

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Many street lights flicker. TeeVee can flicker as well. seems though there are some points raised but absolutely no relationship to appertaining properties. These can be modelled as the formulae is already around. So all this can be calculated. As for flicker on roads. Well it will be devastating. Lucky you do not have duel carriageways, overtaking lines of large vehicles with them between you and the sun, drives everyone mad.

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This flicker is no diffrent from that of living in a house besides a main road in a city where HGV's are passing all the time causing momentary shadow. The suggestion that flicker is making rooms uninhabitable would by extrapolation make every property by a main road in a city uninhabitable, funny i drive through the cities of Manchester and Leeds and dont see lines of empty houses because the people have had to move out because of the shadow of passing vehicles.

 Maybe i didnt fully explain things when i said that those objectors should do without electricity. To explain my deduction we need to look at the situation where residents of a supposedly developed country like the thought of pressing a switch and the light/TV/kitchen appliance or any other ectrical gadget, coming on. What we all need to realise is for this to happen there has to be the concequence of producing the electric for this to be possible. Those concequences range from neuclear power, coal power, oil power, gas power, hydro power, and wind power and we have to look at all these and see which are the least disruptive to the ecology and the balance of the planet. The situation we have is all those who want the light on, appear to object to all the options. so deducing fron that these people dont want the light or anyother electrical item on. therefore switch their electric off. There has to be some form of power, and the two least poluting appear to be hydro and wind, as shetland has more than its fair share of wind, the more apropriate choice would be wind or an abundence of oil so possibly oil would be better. the question for islanders is which of the two is best for the environment, as both have their drawbacks we have to go for the one with the least impact. Oil pollutes the atmosphere  and CO2 emitions or wind creats a moving shadow that as many people moving to live by a main road in a city will tell you, within days you scarcely even notice the shadow of the vehicles passing. so were faced with 3 options 1.Polution 2.Shadow or 3. No electricity. The question is which one is it to be.

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so were faced with 3 options 1.Polution 2.Shadow or 3. No electricity. The question is which one is it to be.

Missing the target altogether so, I'll spell it out for you.

 

Shetland will not be benefitting, by way of electricity, from VE.  Last I heard was that the plan(?) was to ship(?) it all south.

 

As for 'saving the planet' etc.  Rubbish.  There is almost as much damage caused by the material extraction/manufacturing process as with existing methods.

 

Not only that, mainland UK is a very greedy baby and, the more you give it (electricity) the more it will want.

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so were faced with 3 options 1.Polution 2.Shadow or 3. No electricity. The question is which one is it to be.

Missing the target altogether so, I'll spell it out for you.

 

Shetland will not be benefitting, by way of electricity, from VE.  Last I heard was that the plan(?) was to ship(?) it all south.

 

As for 'saving the planet' etc.  Rubbish.  There is almost as much damage caused by the material extraction/manufacturing process as with existing methods.

 

Not only that, mainland UK is a very greedy baby and, the more you give it (electricity) the more it will want.

 

 

4th option:  Go ahead with VE and bankrupt Shetland.  Why would England buy electricity from here when hydro-produced electricity from across the water might be cheaper and in supply when the wind isn't blowing?

 

As for other comments:  I lived in London for years; I wouldn't say that the flicker from a wind turbine isn't the same as a lorries going by; ask anyone who lives near the A13.

 

Windfarms pollute ... or have you not seen the oiled beaches from offshore wind turbines, not to mention the damage to the planet from producing wind turbines in the first place.

 

SP, yes, TVs flicker ... but at least you have the option to turn them off.

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Maybe i didnt fully explain things when i said that those objectors should do without electricity.

 

Why not ask the SCT if they would rather fund smaller community wind turbines or other schemes (heat pumps, etc.) than invest in VE?  With respect, what you fail to be grasping here is the totally non-democratic way in which VE has come about.

 

Shetland won't be getting electricity from VE.

 

There are places in the Shetland Isles without mains electricity supplied by the mainstream lekky company already.

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4th option:  Go ahead with VE and bankrupt Shetland.

We know something else that flickers, the last trace of reasonable argument.

 

As for turning TeeVees off, then the same answer could be the same for windows. Many Shetlanders out in the country have black out curtains (I have helped with that with a small number), perhaps (given the level of argument shown above) those few (and unproven) house holds could have them fitted for free.

 

However, on a serious note, how many properties would suffer flicker, for how long would this flicker be visible, what parts of the year will it manifest and the average sun for these properties at the time flicker could occurr. I worry that you are using flicker as a blanket excuse, and now a bankrupt community to justify perhaps a losing battle. After all, until we really know, this argument is just emotional pferd scheiße in a desperate attempt of looking like you know stuff. Remember, you are up against folk who do.

 

A13 is not really a good example, due to its geography in relation to the sun.

Edited by shetlandpeat
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  • admin changed the title to Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

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