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Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy


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I don't believe that's what's happenning. You may want to review that.

 

I've reviewed it Trooty me boy and I'm sticking by it.:wink:

 

You are saying that current investment on the timelines projected for that spend is just to get it to the point of approval. Then further investment will and can be sought from banks?

 

When I said "be able to begin" I meant that VE will only finalise funding arrangements once they have....

 

a) Secured planning permission

B) Agreed terms on a grid connection

c) Agreed a price for long-term sale of power

 

If they reach this phase then they and SSE could have potentially spent upwards of £3 million each as was approved by the SCT. At the time of transfer to SCT they had spent £1.3M but my understanding was that the £3 million budget was very much of the pessimistic view as it is hoped they will bring this in under £2 million each, possibly even less.

 

I believe the £3 million figure includes the possibility that planning permission may go to a public inquiry. If it doesn't then that would obviously keep costs down.

 

If at reaching that point would they still need to go to an investment house to receive funding? It's all kit an kaboodle CT money.

 

Listen, if the SCT has to spend £2 or even £3 million getting it to that stage, as will SSE, then it will be money well spent IMO.

 

You can't plan/investigate a project such as this, especially if you're doing it as thoroughly as possible, without spending money!

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The only potential unknown that could cripple things after that would be the actual installation of the windfarm.

 

Or, possible future policy changes resulting in reduced subsidy payments for wind generation. For example, crofters were assured that everybody with an ESA agreement would automatically transfer to the RSS, but last year when I applied to transfer mine, I was told that no new applications were being accepted for the RSS. It would be very naiive of us to believe that government policy will never change.

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Shouldn't Shetland concentrate on becoming totally self sufficient in energy with minimal disruption to the environment?

 

No, because then when the oil runs out we'll be back where we were in the early seventies, depending on fishing, fish farming and tourism. All of these are about as big as they will ever be and together are not enough to keep us in the manner to which we have become accustomed.

 

 

 

Isn't the manner which we have become accustomed to, to put it quite bluntly, based on greed and wanton squandering of resources.

 

Firstly, we need to tighten our belts a bit and face up to some realities. This reckless waste of energy which is a trait of the entire Western world and industrializing countries has got to be stopped in its tracks. Shetland is in a unique position to be able to do this. I realize I'm not going to win a lot of votes by telling people to give up the lifestyle they've become (falsely) accustomed to, but that's where the ball needs to start rolling.

 

Many people who are worried about what we will do when the oil runs out are people who have, or would have, complained about the construction of SVT and its environmental impact. Truth is we managed before and we can manage again.

 

I've already given up "the lifestyle I had become accustomed to" and I kind of like it, but maybe that's just me. I plan to turn over a little bit of land in the spring, so I will have to approach one of my neighbours who has a working horse.

 

I think now is the time to make Shetland more self sufficient while there are still some pennies in the coffers, without doing it on such a grandiose scale. For what we've already taken out of the environment, perhaps it's time to put something back.

 

Oh the irony, I'm writing this post on a nuclear powered laptop, but that's a whole other debate.

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I'd much rather retain Shetland the way it is with less 'feel good' expenditure than turn our island into a factory for the benefit of the UK politician's brownie points.

 

Do you think the MPs and MSPs would be happy having a wind factory on thier own backgarden, of course they wouldn't! And that's why the SNP government will eventually put the Western Islands project to an end. Shetland is seen as being far enough away not to affect their constitutents and is seen as an easy way to meet their environmental targets.

 

Shetland with its current cash fund of £200M odd will continue to grow (with troughs & peaks) so long as we start:

 

Closing schools;

Stopthe Bressay bridge project;

Forget a new hospital;

Stop the Christmas bonus;

And cut the rediculous salaries paid by the SIC

 

Everyone should stop worrying about the fund diminishing, it just takes a few decisions to save it.

 

As for the environmental effects and making a windfarm for the benefit of the world, note this. If every country who signed up to Kyoto met thier targets (which they won't), climate change in 2100 will only have been halted by seven years

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I'd much rather retain Shetland the way it is with less 'feel good' expenditure than turn our island into a factory for the benefit of the UK politician's brownie points.

 

Do you think the MPs and MSPs would be happy having a wind factory on thier own backgarden, of course they wouldn't! And that's why the SNP government will eventually put the Western Islands project to an end. Shetland is seen as being far enough away not to affect their constitutents and is seen as an easy way to meet their environmental targets.

 

Shetland with its current cash fund of £200M odd will continue to grow (with troughs & peaks) so long as we start:

 

Closing schools;

Stopthe Bressay bridge project;

Forget a new hospital;

Stop the Christmas bonus;

And cut the rediculous salaries paid by the SIC

 

Everyone should stop worrying about the fund diminishing, it just takes a few decisions to save it.

 

As for the environmental effects and making a windfarm for the benefit of the world, note this. If every country who signed up to Kyoto met thier targets (which they won't), climate change in 2100 will only have been halted by seven years

 

Well done Mutton.

 

You are correct, this is all it will take to ensure our financial security, not too much pain and no need for the windmills.

 

Self sufficiency in energy

Close all the small schools

Trim the ferries, build tunnels wherever possible

Pay off most of the Sullom Voe pilots and boat people

Encourage investment in tourism, and any redundant people to start up in their own business instead of leeching onto the council.

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A bit of a contradiction here:

Stopthe Bressay bridge project
Trim the ferries, build tunnels wherever possible

Building tunnels will seriously deplete the reserves, mind you, keeping the ferries will be just as bad.

 

Scrap the new hospital? Why? This will be paid for by NHS just like all hospitals should be.

Pay off most of the Sullom Voe pilots and boat people

So you want to close the terminal even earlier than will happen as the oil runs out? (It can't run without these people.)

Encourage investment in tourism,

I'd rather have the windfarm than live in a seasonal tourist trap, and anyway, what makes you think tourism is going to grow by much once Global Warming kicks in, not to mention the world wide recession that will be caused if we don't start dealing with it.

I'd much rather retain Shetland the way it is...

Shetland the way it is... is Shetland massively and unsustainably subsidised by the oil industry.

I'm getting fed up saying this. Shetland as it is at the moment is in an artificial bubble created by the oil money

..less 'feel good' expenditure than turn our island into a factory...

We are already living in a "factory", an oil factory and oil is killing the planet! To say that we can lose the oil industry and just carry on like nothing has happened is just ridiculous. What about all the salaries which depend on the Terminal? What will replace them? These are the highest salaries on the islands (Apart from the pelagic millionaires of course). Even if we do replace the Terminal with the windfarm, the Shetland economy will still take a serious hit as the windfarm will never employ as many people as the terminal.

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Out of interest, what is the design life of the proposed turbines? If say 20 years, what then? It sounds like a permanent change to the landscape for a relatively short term return. How is this going to provide for the next generation? What is the long term plans/forecast?

 

Given that Sullom will be around and kicking for another 15+ years before they begin to think about decommission the site (an additional 5+ years work?), will Sullom be providing income after the turbines?

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Shetland with its current cash fund of £200M odd will continue to grow (with troughs & peaks) so long as we start:

 

Closing schools;

Stopthe Bressay bridge project;

Forget a new hospital;

Stop the Christmas bonus;

And cut the rediculous salaries paid by the SIC

 

Self sufficiency in energy

Close all the small schools

Trim the ferries, build tunnels wherever possible

Pay off most of the Sullom Voe pilots and boat people

 

Boys, boys! Whilst I might agree with a few of those suggestions they do not tally up to a great economic solution. Nope, as before this is just far too simplistic a view on what is really a fairly complex economic situation.

 

Firstly, SCT funds are not guaranteed to continue to grow. Yes, become self sufficient but the rest is just pure poppy cock!! Ooh, pay off the pilots, fasten the hatches, trim the ferries, hoist the main sale... nonsense!!

 

Sorry if I am being a bit flippant here but is just doesn't add up guys!

 

A real concern is that in the next 10-20 years, when money really will begin to be tight, and the youth of today turn around and say: "What the hell did you do with all the money earned from the oil?"

 

"Erh, well does du see yun derelict building ower yunder? It used to be a leisure complex, bloody good wan at dat. An yun used to be a care home. An Christ, we hed dat much money we gave it awa tae aald folk at Christmas as weel! Man, does wir da days!!"

 

This situation will one day become reality if we don't find another serious source of revenue in the next 10 years. The VE project is such a scheme which could allow us to continue such services. Allowing us to potentially break into new ground such as producing hydrogen, tidal power, wave power in teh following years. If we have a sub-sea connector then all these technologies could be the windfarms of the future.

 

We are fortunate here in the Shetland Islands that we can even consider a project such a VE. To my knowledge our situation is unparalleled here in the UK, a local community with hundreds of millions of funds at their disposal. Funds which, if used properly, could actually secure future revenue for generations to come. That's not going to happen just by sitting on it!

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This is a cut and paste job so sorry but it links to my questions else where.

 

Building all these windmills would prevent access to the land?

 

Does VE have to do archaeological surveys before they start? Okay it's pretty hard to go very far without tripping over some ancient ruin or burnt mound in Shetland, but are they bound to do the whole area in the same way that you'd have to if say building a new road?

 

Windmills wont produce electricity when some feel it's most needed. Say when you're stuck in a huge high in the middle of winter, or when it's too windy? So that way it doesn't matter if you've got 2, 20 or 200 hundred if you've got a week of no wind (or too much) will there be financial penalties for no electricity?

 

Also if you put up a couple of hundred windmills in one go what happens when they go obsolete? Are they made up gradable and/or recyclable?

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I think you will find that we do not have 10 - 20 years we will be bust by then.

What we have is a council with costs spiralling out of control, with no atempt to sort it out.

 

Finding a cash cow using a very dodgy business plan for a giant wind farm, to allow the spiraling costs to continue is - how is the expression 'poppy cock'!

 

As far as I understand it there in no spare capacity in the cable for developing new renewable ideas, so that too is 'poppy cock'!

 

What we have here is someone who does not want to stop the good times rolling whatever the risk.

 

S**t or bust, I think is the expression!

 

I just cannot see why we do not run things efficiently first, then we actually need less funds to keep things ticking along nicely.

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As far as I understand it there in no spare capacity in the cable for developing new renewable ideas, so that too is 'poppy cock'!

 

My point was that when we decommission the windfarm we may have other technologies to replace the supply of power. We may rebuild it but with 20 years development in technology there may be other alternatives such as the ones suggested.

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Scrap the new hospital? Why? This will be paid for by NHS just like all hospitals should be.

 

That is not actually always the case: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7002288.stm

 

I'd much rather retain Shetland the way it is...

Shetland the way it is... is Shetland massively and unsustainably subsidised by the oil industry.

 

I meant in a geographic sense.

 

..less 'feel good' expenditure than turn our island into a factory...

We are already living in a "factory", an oil factory and oil is killing the planet! To say that we can lose the oil industry and just carry on like nothing has happened is just ridiculous. What about all the salaries which depend on the Terminal? What will replace them? These are the highest salaries on the islands (Apart from the pelagic millionaires of course). Even if we do replace the Terminal with the windfarm, the Shetland economy will still take a serious hit as the windfarm will never employ as many people as the terminal.

 

Sullom Voe, although the biggest of its kind in Europe, has not affected us to the same extent as a Windfarm would. 160 windmills double the size of the Burravoe ones we're talking about here!

 

Yes jobs will go at Sullom, the process began years ago and it will continue to cut the number of jobs on offer there. That's life and people will find work elsewhere with other new initiatives such as those happening up in Unst & the decomissioning work. And let's not forget a number of those highly paid posts at Sullom are filled by soothmoothers who have no intention of staying here full time.

 

Of course the reserves in the stock will go down, but in the long term they will grow and continue to do so so long as cuts are made as detailed above. We're not going to have a poverty crisis by cutting salaries for new SIC posts or stopping the Christmas bonus, just means there will be less money for people to spend in the pub.

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