POLICE STATE.

[Capeesh]

The goals of the temporary laws are...

To suppress the infection rate of the virus by limiting contact between people.

To try and prevent any extra strain on our emergency services, especially the NHS.

To achieve these two basic goals while at the same time minimising non pandemic problems.

It's a crying shame we need laws, even temporary ones to enforce simple idiot proof advice from the world's leading Epidemiologists in a serious global pandemic.

Could the people who think the temporary measures represent a "police state" answer me this?

How on earth can they achieve these goals when a tiny minority refuse to do what's necessary voluntarily?

Edited April 11, 2020 by Capeesh

[Claadehol]

Jeez Capeesh! I agree with you! Absolutely spot on!

[tarsus]

I do not think that anyone has said that any of these laws constitute a police state, but it is being pointed out that police states do not start overnight, small things to start with. I do notice though that it is now being said that certain of these items may have to stay indefinitely.

[NullVoid]

The goals of the temporary laws are...

To suppress the infection rate of the virus by limiting contact between people.

To try and prevent any extra strain on our emergency services, especially the NHS.

To achieve these two basic goals while at the same time minimising non pandemic problems.

It's a crying shame we need laws, even temporary ones to enforce simple idiot proof advice from the world's leading Epidemiologists in a serious global pandemic.

Could the people who think the temporary measures represent a "police state" answer me this?

How on earth can they achieve these goals when a tiny minority refuse to do what's necessary voluntarily?

 

It's a crying shame we need laws, even temporary ones

 from the world's leading Epidemiologists in a serious global pandemic.

 

weather they are necessary or temporary is  up for debate

Highest suicide rates seen among those aged 45 to 49 though that figure may become younger considering how a turdty economy and lack of funds bolsters the odds of somebody being pushed over the edge.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2018registrations

 

The average working age person has less than £1K in savings its a big reason people are trapped in poor areas,

Lack of opportunity to sell their Labour is a contributing factor.

 

People are less likely to kill themselves if they get the right amount of social interaction or to put it bluntly "Feel loved"

 

Living under recession and having no opportunity makes you feel depressed too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/turd_Life_Syndrome

 

It is often said suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem!

 

So how temporary is this problem going to be?

So Who are we going to protect?

 

Older and unhealthy people who have no chance of surviving the disease

 

Healthy and or Younger people who can recover from this but might feel financial ruin and debt bondage isnt worth getting up tomorrow over

[Claadehol]

I do believe Tarsus that it was you who introduced the alarmist phrase "Police State" into this conversation, and suggested that was likely to be what we are heading into. 

You are now saying that others are saying, (not sure who they are) that these new laws may have to stay in place indefinitely. That is also stoking the fire a little unnecessarily. 

The new laws may well have to stay in place indefinitely till we get on top of this pandemic, and the way to do that is to try and get the mindless dickheads among us to toe the line for the common good.

That means keeping the laws in place indefinitely because otherwise these dickheads will continue to add to the problem.

 

It's often said: It's no use knocking when there's nobody in." But hey we have to try.

[bug]

All of the contributions above have merit but I will dare to interject, and suggest, that all contributors read and absorb "The Origin of the Species" and "Mien Kampf" before hitting their keyboards again.

[NullVoid]

read and absorb "The Origin of the Species" and "Mien Kampf"

Edited April 12, 2020 by NullVoid

[NullVoid]

Former NSA spy and whistleblower Edward Snowden on the rise of authoritarianism during the COVID-19 pandemic.

[Ghostrider]

While most of the measures that are leading to the 'Police State' accusations will do very little to shrink the final death toll, there were arguably far more draconian measures put in place during WWII, which were lifted once 'peace' broke out. So, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.......

 

Everything just now is all about 'flattening the curve', but nobody is mentioning that 'flattening the curve' doesn't necessarily reduce the numbers that comprise the curve, it just lengthens the timeline over which the curve is distributed. The actual number stands an equal chance of remaining the same, decreasing, or increasing, and you can argue all three until the cows come home without resolution as crystal balls let you see in them what you want to be seen in them,

 

In case you hadn't noticed, the current policy has nothing to do with the welfare of the population in general nor patients, its all about Governmental survival. In times such as these, doing the very best for the population and patients should be paramount, and its not. Just look at the Governmental slogans and soundbites being rammed in you face at every opportunity. What is mentioned first? Not 'saving lives', but 'saving the NHS'.......That tells you where the minds of those in positions to make the decisions are.

 

Allowing the virus to develop as it would have naturally would have overwhelmed the NHS and put the Government in crisis, this closedown etc is all about drip feeding patients in to the NHS at a rate it can just about cope with if at all possible, for as long as it takes. Whether that leads to the same, a lower or a higher death toll in the end hasn't been what the decision has been made primarily on. A Million dead in a month, or a Million dead in six months hardly matters, the Million victims are still equally dead, 5500 per day is a whole lot more palatable daily pill to swallow for 183 days though than 33,333 per day for 30 days - the former is much easier to accept as background noise and with the time factor people become sanitized to it going on....

 

That said, the current measures cannot be sustained in any more than the very short term, a sizeable chunk of the nation's trade and business is in limbo, the Government are incurring significant additional expenditure, and with less revenue coming in through taxation due to business closures, the candle is being burned at both ends and will meet in the middle in a very finite length of time.

 

Sooner, very much sooner rather than later trade and business is going to have to be allowed to resume just to provide the taxation revenue to prevent the country going bankrupt. The health/safety of the population in general will again take second place in the making of that decision, just as it has done in making the one we're living through currently,

 

We are where we are, primarily as a consequence of Government taking a decision that was best for the Government and the machinery of Government, specifically their arm's length entity, the NHS. We are headed to wherever as a consequence of whatever decision the Government takes next that is best for the Government and the machinery of Government, specifically the Treasury, and the prevention of its collapse. What may or may not be best for the population in general is very much secondary, we're always expendable collateral damage, as has been proven time and again throughout history.

 

The Government are gambling, they're gambling on the current shutdown slowing the spread and buying them time to put in place additional NHS resources that they hope will cope well enough when the eventual spike in the curve passes through, as it surely will. The closedown won't stop anything, and when its eventually lifted the spike in the curve will follow, as all it will take is just one person with it who doesn't know they have it, or one person coming from some other country having caught it, wandering around in public, and we're back to square one again.

 

A regular and ongoing testing program for the entire population in parallel with a closedown might just have succeeded, but that's neither practical nor affordable, but repeated closedowns every time there are fresh outbreaks over the coming months or even years are equally impractical and unaffordable, so eventually the virus is going to have to be let to run its natural course at whatever the human cost, as in the absence of a vaccine or 'cure' thats the only way it going to die off.

 

They probably should have let that happen from the start instead of the PR/Gesture politics campaign they've run with, it would have been messy, perhaps to the point of carnage, it could well have destabilised if not toppled the Government from criticism of an un-ready NHS, but its usually considered preferential when faced with nasty but unavoidable experiences, to shoot through them as quickly as possible so that you can put them behind you and move on.

 

As it is, the Government will probably survive, but the population will have this hanging over them for who knows how long to come, with a steady flow of re-emergences of the virus and its accompanying death toll throughout.

 

Hey, ho.....Welcome to the world of your ancestors of up to 80-90 years ago who lived every day of their lives not knowing whether that would be the day they succumbed to the likes of TB or Typhoid which would lead to their rapid demise, as it was endemic all around them every day.

 

They survived well enough to save the breed, otherwise none of us would be here.

 

Medicine 0 - Mother Nature and her nasty bugs 1. It was due, medicine has held the upper hand for a very long time, they aren't as smart as they would like us to believe they are, and we need to accept they can't fix everything instantly all of the time, nor are we immortal.

[George.]

^Spanish 'flu

[NullVoid]

^^

The government is a Joint venture between Big Banks and Big Pharma at this point

 

Ever notice that the decline in physical negative reinforcement such as spanking happens at the same time drugs such as Ritalin begin being prescribed to unruly students who would have just been slapped had they been born in decades prior.

 

While many resisted plenty went along with this to create lifelong customers from over-medicated students

[Ghostrider]

Do you do passports for Taured, and how much are they?

[BigMouth]

Anyone who thinks the police don't exceed their powers should research what happened to the miners when they were striking.  For a more up to date view of policing, especially complaints against the Police, watch any of the videos of Crimebodge on YouTube.

 

As far as Parliaments are concerned, notice the regularity of new laws being introduced and the lack of laws being deleted from the statute book.

[NullVoid]

Surprised YouTube hasn't purged him yet

He makes good stuff!

 

the subject matter in above video covers the way the police operate in relation to different protected groups which some rank higher than other.

 

People with the wrong opinion are of greater significance to the powers that be than a burglar or rapist for example because the latter 2 are no threat to the aristocracy/ruling class given their private security but a man who spreads ideas IS

 

and you can get a criminal record for expressing Illegal opinions

[BigMouth]

I was thinking more along the lines of this