Ghostrider Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 The focus should be on...... Your points are all valid, but they are also 'whataboutery' That kind of logic would dictate that folk shouldn't protest about anything unless they're going to protest about everything. I have no problem with people protesting, but rioting and wanton random criminal damage/vandalism is not legitimate protest and only serves to devalue the message of the protest rather than enhance. Pandering to the wishes of those whose protests include rioting and criminal damage is reacting to mob rule and performing appeasement, both anti-democratic acts. There are legitimate and accepted methods of going about effecting change, and breaking windows, helping yourself to other folks property and destroying whatever monuments/constructions take the whim of the mob on the street at a given moment are not on that list. A distinction needs to be made between 'whataboutery' that is introduced as a means of deflection/dilution and that which is introduced as a means of pointing out that while the prime subject at hand might well have valid complaints about being discriminated against, just because they are shouting loudest and making the most fuss it doesn't mean they are the most discriminated against demgraphic. This crap all stemmed from one guy who died while being arrested, it shouldn't have happened, I don't think anybody would disagree with that. Out of that has grown a braying mob alleging police brutality and racism against Americans of African descent. I don't doubt there's some truth in those allegations, but are Americans of African descent the most brutalised and discriminated against demographic by US Police. BLM and their supporters are doing their damndest to convince everybody that they are, I'm not so sure. Had it been, say, a caucasian drug dealer. or a native Amercian prostitute's neck who was under that cop's knee, would anybody even have bothered to video it....... Surely society, to do what it says on the tin, has an obligation to take on board protests, and not just give a knee jerk reaction to them, but assess and research them, and then address the demographic which is being most brutalised and discriminated against first. Its a very poor indictment on what society is supposed to be, if we just accept at face value the allegations of one demographic represented by a rather sketchy mouthpiece and prone to unacceptable behaviour themselves. If it turned out once US society as a whole was reviewed, that their was adequate evidence to support Americans of African descent were the most severely brutalised and discriminated against, then so be it, but until that proof is forthcoming I strongly suspect that while they may suffer their fair share, if not more, there are other demographics within the US that suffer more and have been persecuted more and for longer as well. Accepting BLM's rhetoric and pandering to their demands without also examining for similar unjustified behaviours to other significant demographics is not only unfair and unjust, it is in effect increasing the levels of discrimination on all other demographics. No demographic is immune from police brutality and discrimination, it only varies in nature and degree. A benchmark of a successful civilisation is the ability to quelll riots as quickly as possible with the minimal damage or injury, a riot has no place where a civilisation supposedly exists. Accepting the unproven allegations and pandering to the demands of rioters, as we seem to do these days, does nothing positive, it just encourages them to come back asking for more. Containment and restriction while listening to their grievances and acting upon those which are legitimate is the only way to broker an uneasy truce all round. George. and XAM7102 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George. Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 WLM as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie P Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 @Ghostrider. I agree with your sentiments on "wanton random criminal damage/vandalism", but... It is very idealistic to expect society to "assess and research [protests], and then address the demographic which is being most brutalised and discriminated against first." You're just putting more words around the core of whataboutery. There is ample statistical evidence to back up claims of discrimination against Americans of African descent. Do you really believe a workable way forward is for people to wait until they are provably the "the most severely brutalised and discriminated against" until their concerns are "addressed"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 WLM as well.Is that 'W' for Westminster George ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 "Had it been, say, a caucasian drug dealer. or a native Amercian prostitute's neck who was under that cop's knee, would anybody even have bothered to video it......." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53027704 More needless violence by the people who "protect and serve". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urabug Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 We have to remember that if you are a policeman in America you are armed, and every likelihood the suspects that you are dealing with are more than likely the same. One thing confronting an unarmed person ,to confronting someone armed. I support stop and search in this country if it can reduce knife crime ect , although I could easily get caught on occasion myself after working in the shed,and forgetting to empty my pockets ! Crime is crime no matter who the perpetrators are and all should be brought to justice. All this BLM demonstrations are a nonsense and just creating more divisions among us all. George. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie P Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 ^ you appear to be completely missing the point Urabug. No-one is suggesting people who commit crime shouldn't be brought to justice. BLM is a campaign to address systematic racism. Roachmill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie P Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) It might be worth familiarising ourselves with the core objectives of BLM - https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/ The following points might go some way to addressing the 'All lives matter' retort: We acknowledge, respect, and celebrate differences and commonalities. We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others. Edited June 14, 2020 by Davie P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NullVoid Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 "Had it been, say, a caucasian drug dealer. or a native Amercian prostitute's neck who was under that cop's knee, would anybody even have bothered to video it......." NOits not as politically savvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 "Had it been, say, a caucasian drug dealer. or a native Amercian prostitute's neck who was under that cop's knee, would anybody even have bothered to video it......." NOits not as politically savvy Did you bother looking at the link ? Just wondering... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie P Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Had it been, say, a caucasian drug dealer. or a native Amercian prostitute's neck who was under that cop's knee, would anybody even have bothered to video it....... Pretty much everything gets videoed nowadays, whether by police body and/or dash cameras or by onlookers. Is there a point here that I'm missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urabug Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 ^ you appear to be completely missing the point Urabug. No-one is suggesting people who commit crime shouldn't be brought to justice. BLM is a campaign to address systematic racism. Telling us what we can and cannot do in our own "free" country, dictating what we can watch on TV ect,destroying our heritage is this the way to address systemic racism. No those who decide to stay in the UK should be prepared to adopt to our way of life or get out. Sorry that many do not have my sense of harmless humor but banning some of our old comedy shows just because they "upset" a minority is not acceptable All that this racist chant is doing is making things even worse for those it is supposed to help. I'm not racist but when this nonsense starts to affect the way I live,then my attitude towards those that implement those changes certainly do. Colin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie P Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) No those who decide to stay in the UK should be prepared to adopt to our way of life or get out. Interesting. Have you just made this into an immigration issue? And what about born and bred British people who think that elements of our "way of life" needs to change? Or do you think all these BLM protesters are immigrants? [to the sound of alarm bells ringing]I'm not racist but.... Edited June 14, 2020 by Davie P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NullVoid Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Did you bother looking at the link ? Just wondering...I did but everything gets taped these days i thought you were implying it would get attention besides a brief mention before its forgotten. Had it been, say, a caucasian drug dealer. or a native Amercian prostitute's neck who was under that cop's knee, would anybody even have bothered to video it....... Pretty much everything gets videoed nowadays, whether by police body and/or dash cameras or by onlookers. Is there a point here that I'm missing? I thought he was implying weather or not anybody besides those actually there and immediately affected would care. [to the sound of alarm bells ringing]I'm not racist but.... But its okay when the left does it? Then again Literally Everything is Racist, Everything is Sexist, Everything is Homophobic and you have to point it all out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie P Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) But its okay when the left does it? You've just posted an image with no source or context. What's your point, or are we playing whataboutery? Edited June 14, 2020 by Davie P George. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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