Infiltrator

Just how many folk do you think the windfarm would employ? Balance that with the folk who would lose jobs in the Lerwick power station - once the interconnector is in place, the Lk p/stn would most certainly move to a care and maintenance basis as per the one in Kirkwall did. Lerwick p/stn is the most expensive to generate electricity in the UK, S&SE will have this in mind for the interconnector as well as wind generation. I reckon a lot of folk move to Shetland for the advantages that come with it's remoteness and it's rugged beauty - building a huge windfarm could in fact have a negative impact on the population growth.

Not if we build the windfarm. (I've expanded on this on the windfarm thread) How many folk do you think the windfarm would employ? Balance that with the folk who would lose jobs in the Lerwick power station - once the interconnector is in place, the Lk p/stn would most certainly move to a care and maintenance basis as per the one in Kirkwall did.

Which is why it is especially important to boost other sectors... no? Yes and no - there'll be a natural level that the islands can sustain but there's no way that 'new industries' will ever offer the same level of employment that fish, oil and the council have offered over the last 30 yrs. Someone from London in a telecroft (subsidised) in Hillswick isn't likely to bring as much cash to the local economy as the crew of a long decomissioned trawler would have. All I'm saying is that the economy and population will shrink over the next 10-20 yrs and we have to trim services and spending to suit.

Okay, if it's going to break even in 4 years why does it need public money at all? surely such a surefire investment that's in profit after 4 years would have private investors knocking the door down. Has there been any fundraising? there seems to be plenty of folk passionate about the venue. Back to the Lemon Tree, Aberdeen population is 200,000 or thereabouts with a big catchment are probably covering the same again. Lemon Tree was open probably 4 or 5 nights a week, can you honestly see such a venue in Lerwick getting enough trade through the week to be profitable. The economy and population are shrinking, we're agreed on that, but Shetland for the last 30 years has had an artifical economy driven by high paying fish, oil and council jobs - jobs which because of their very nature had to be based in Shetland. All these sectors are shrinking and folk will move away - including youngsters who go to off to Uni and see little in the way of opportunities to return for. The boom days based on the rich natural resources are over. Is this such a bad thing though? The local economy and population will reach a new natural level and one which the islands can sustain populated by folk who want to live there rather than folk who are only there for the high paying jobs. Yes the CT is a pot of money that's supposed to generate revenue from it's investment - a pot of money which is shrinking as it's now needed to prop up council spending and it'll shrink even quicker if we allow it to be used for some of the major projects in the pipeline. p.s. studies and consultants only tell you what you want to hear;)

voted no to this. It really is about time Shetland got real with the whole cost of the existing infrastructure before adding to the existing mess. Over 200 public halls, 9 swimming pools, hugely subsidised inter island ferry services and if I remember correctly 16% of the population working for the council. Can't remember if this is 16% of working population or total but it's still way above Scottish average. The whole Shetland economy (& population) is shrinking and it needs to find a new base it can maintain without draining the CT. Garrison is fine for films and we seem to have managed okay for music venues over the past 20 years. I chose to live on an island and I'll accept the shorcomings - if I don't like it there's a ferry to the mainland every night. Aberdeen couldn't manage to make the Lemon Tree profitable, a new music venue in Shetland like the one proposed will just become another huge drain on already tight public finances. On the other hand, just build it, and a new school, and a few dozen windmills (don't get me started) blow the CT completely. Once it's gone it'll stop all this fighting over the cash.

Never mind the terrorists, the Northlink seems to have become one of the main routes for drugs finding their way to the Isles - the photo ID may not be foolproof but if it helps stop one drug courier getting to Shetland then it's been worthwhile. The Orkney councillor really must have some better local issues to be chasing

I think 'social integration' is a rather excessive term in this sense. 20 yrs is just the length of time that the folk I know have been in the islands - it was probably much less. But the example I was trying to make was someone with a very strong regional accent, Welsh for instance, who has managed to make the use of words like 'peerie' in normal conversation sound natural and not sound like a tourist on the first day of a foreign holiday taking the pi55 out of the local lingo. Bl00dy hell, if you feel socially excluded, how do all our Eastern European friends feel?

I think you'll be surprised how it's perceived, I've worked with soothmoothers who arrived 20+ years ago and over time they've natuarally started using some of the more common words and even in some strange accents the use of the words doesn't sound out of place. If you arrive off the boat and try to use the Shetland dictionary to put together sentences you might get a different response

Juan - folk writing letters in dialect to be published in the media winds me up as well - and I'm a Shetlander. Is it maybe an obscure form of Attention Deficit Disorder? Have you ever considered trying to get on the Up Helly Aa commitee?

The two are very closely linked, however. How does one identify a soothmoother without reference to their birth certificate? Usually by the way they talk. I know sooth folk who talk with a fluent Shetland accent and they're still referred too as soothmoothers. You're clearly having a problem accepting that a soothmoother is someone who is deemed to have arrived through the sooth mooth (as it's commonly known) and not a description of the way they talk. You might talk like a soothmoother but it doesn't mean you have a south mouth Completely agree, it's about how the term is used, I know many soothmoothers who use the term to refer to themselves..

I've only ever heard it being used to describe some who arrived in the isles through the sooth mooth. I'm sure if I trawl through some of my old Shetland books then I could find a pretty early reference to this description (sure I've read it in al least one of them) I was at college with some chaps from Skye and Barra who spoke gaelic as their first language. At college if they were together they spoke gaelic but as soon as someone joined who didn't speak gaelic they automatically spoke in english - that's inclusive for you. I agree, I've seen these attitudes as well, not summit to be proud of.

It's my missus that ultimately decides whether someone is fit to travel or not, turn up too drunk or be abusive to the staff and you're on the Northlink....trust me, I wouldn't try arguing with her sober

'SIC Start 4 .5 Day Week' - I bet they're not happy with this dramatic increase in their hours

Did someone mention the ATP? Regarding ATP reliability, the following should just about cover it. Undaunted by technical realities, the design team at British Aerospace has announced plans for the ATP-XL, promising more noise, reduced payload, a lower cruise speed, and increased pilot workload. We spoke to Fred, a former British Rail boilermaker, and now Chief Project Engineer. Fred was responsible for developing many original and creative design flaws in the service of his former employer, and will be incorporating these in the new ATP-XL technology under a licensing agreement. Fred reassured ATP pilots, however, that all fundamental design flaws of the original model had been retained. Further good news is that the XL version is available as a retrofit. Among the new measures is that of locking the ailerons in the central position, following airborne and simulator tests which showed that whilst pilots of average strength were able to achieve up to 30 degrees of control wheel deflection, this produced no appreciable variation in the net flight path of the aircraft. Thus the removal of costly and unnecessary linkages has been possible, and the rudder has been nominated as the primary directional control. In keeping with this new philosophy, but to retain commonality for crews transitioning to the XL, additional resistance to foot pressure has been built in to the rudder bias system to prevent over-controlling in gusty conditions (defined as those in which wind velocity exceeds 3 knots). An outstanding feature of ATP technology has always been the adaptation of the PW100 engine, which mounted in any other aircraft in the free world is known for its low vibration levels. The ATP adaptations cause it to shake and batter the airframe, gradually crystallising the main spar, lock the port maingear after retraction, desynchronise the accompanying engine, and simulate the sound of fifty skeletons fornicating in an aluminium dustbin. BAe will not disclose the technology they applied in preserving this effect in the XL but Fred assures us it will be perpetrated in later models and sees it as a strong selling point. "After all, the Concorde makes a lot of noise" he said, "and look how fast that goes." However design documents clandestinely recovered from the BAe shredder have solved a question that has puzzled aerodynamicists and pilots for many years... how does the ATP actually fly ?? These documents disclose that it is actually noise which causes the ATP to fly - the vibration set up by the engines, and amplified by the airframe, in turn causes the air molecules above the wing to oscillate at atomic frequency, reducing their density and creating lift. This can be demonstrated by sudden closure of the throttles, which causes the aircraft to fall from the sky. As a result, lift is proportional to noise, rather than speed. Fred was at pains to point out that during the take-off phase, the previous equation is not applicable as the net take-off flight path is completely proportional to the willpower of the flightdeck, cabin crew and passengers combined. "Any single person not willing the aircraft to become airborne could cause a major accident," he commented. In the driver's cab (as Fred describes it) ergonomic measures will ensure that long-term ATP pilots' deafness does not cause in-flight dozing. Orthopaedic surgeons have designed a cockpit layout and seat to maximise backache, en-route insomnia, chronic irritability and terminal (post-flight) lethargy. Redesigned "bullworker" elastic aileron cables, now disconnected from the control surfaces, increase pilot workload and fitness. Special noise retention cabin lining is an innovation on the XL, and it is hoped in later models to develop cabin noise to a level which will enable pilots to relate ear-pain directly to engine power, eliminating the need for engine instruments altogether. We were offered an opportunity to fly the XL at British Aerospace's development facility, adjacent to the BritRail tearooms at Little Chortling. (The flight was originally to have been conducted at the Prestwick plant but aircraft of BAe design are now prohibited from operating in Scottish airspace during avalanche season). For our mission profile, the XL was loaded with Benbecula passengers for a standard 100 nm trip with BritRail reserves, carrying three pilots (all Captains, due to crew shortages) and 68+40 passengers (all from the same family) to maximise discomfort. Passenger loading is unchanged, the normal 'prop rotating in wind of 5 knots, due to slack groundstaff failing to secure it' syndrome, inflicting serious lacerations on 71% of boarding passengers, and there was the usual confusion in selecting a seat appropriate to the nearest emergency exit. The facility for the clothing of embarking passengers to remove oil slicks from engine cowls during loading has been thoughtfully retained. Start-up is standard, and taxiing, as in the standard ATP is accomplished by brute force. Takeoff calculations called for a 250-decibel power setting, and the rotation force for the (neutral) C of G was calculated at 180 ft/lbs. of backpressure. Initial warning of an engine failure during takeoff is provided by a reduction in vibration of the flight instrument panel. Complete seizure of one engine is indicated by the momentary illusion that the engines have suddenly and inexplicably become synchronised. Otherwise, identification of the failed engine is achieved by comparing the vibration levels of the windows on either side of the cabin. (Relative passenger pallor has been found to be an unreliable guide on many ATP routes because of ethnic consideration). Shortly after takeoff the XL's chief test pilot, Capt. Bloggs, demonstrated the extent to whch modern aeronautical design has left the ATP untouched; he simulated pilot incapacitation by slumping forward onto the control column, simultaneously applying full right rudder and bleeding from the ears. Whilst initially noting nothing out of the ordinary, on discovery that Capt. Bloggs actually was incapacitated, the crew of the XL discovered that, like its predecessor, it demonstrated total control rigidity and continued undisturbed. Power was then reduced to 249 decibels for cruise, and we carried out some comparisons of actual flight performance with graph predictions. At 5000 ft and ISA, we achieved a vibration amplitude of 500 CPS and 240 decibels, for a fuel flow of 700kgs/hr making the ATP-XL the most efficient converter of fuel to noise after the Titan rocket. Exploring the Constant noise/Variable noise concepts, we found that in a VNE dive, vibration reached its design maximum at 1000 CPS, at which point the limiting factor is the emulsification of human tissue. The catatonic condition of long-term ATP pilots is attributed to this syndrome, which commences in the cerebral cortex and spreads outwards. We asked Capt. Bloggs what he considered the outstanding features of the XL. He cupped his hand behind his ear and shouted "Whazzat?" We returned to British Aerospace, convinced that the XL model retains the marque's most memorable features, whilst showing some significant and worthwhile regressions. BAe are not, however, resting on their laurels. Plans are already advanced for the HS748-XL and noise tunnel testing has commenced. The basis of preliminary design and performance specifications is that lift increases as the square of the noise, and as the principle of acoustic lift is further developed, a later five-engined vertical take-off model is also a possibility.

There's too much competition in their own patch - there's been a similar link between Wolverhampton and Aberdeenshire for a few years.

The Viscounts must've been some sort of magic plane, everything else that's flown to Shetland in the last 20 years has been diverted at one time or another. I remember a viscount bouncing across the road trying to land in marginal conditions - that was very close to being a serious accident. I believe the oil co's pay a pretty penny for the 146's, they're very expensive to run as well as having a spare aircraft based at Aberdeen but the leather seats and 40mins journey keep the bears happy and that's worth paying for. At the end of the day, the 146's are there to support the Helicopters - this is the expensive part of the service, the planes are cheaper than flying the bears the extra 200 miles from Aberdeen in helicopters.

Scatsta's closed due to low cloud, Sumburghs the diversionary destination - hows that something failing to work? Surely it's the same as any of the Sumburgh planes diverting to Scatsta? This is how it's supposed to work.

Well well well, someone obviously thinks something was amiss before the police are spending time investigating what happened. http://www.shetland-news.co.uk/news_08_2007/Police%20investigate%20SIC%20SSG%20affair.htm No doubt nothing will become of it but it really is about time that a select few in the council stopped throwing away Shetlands future - regardless whether it's SLAP, the Charitable or Development Trust, at the end of the day it's the same purse. p.s. @ a loss of £7.8 million, that's close on £400 for every person in Shetland, if you've a family of 4, then due to bad investments, the SIC have thrown away £1,600 of your money.

Would you invest (gamble almost) your own money in a business already in trouble with no guarantee that you'll get what you really want from the deal - long term commitment for Scandanavian link. I agree, when it was running the local tourist industry did benefit greatly, but the service from the outset was on a very thin tightrope because of the poor state of Smyril itself. As investments go, very very risky - and all done in a very secret manner. Good luck to Wishart and co with their proposed venture, with a businessman leading the project it'll at least have a fighting chance.

Personally think the whole Smyril line investment stinks, the original investments were misguided and now the current convener is found guilty of breaching the code by the watchdog which protects the ethical standards of public life in Scotland. Maybe the watchdog should take a good hard look at some of the other abysmal investments and surrounding ethical practices - messrs Goodlad for instance. When last reviewed, the return from £125 million of investments from the charitable trust stood at summit like less than £10 million, if the charitable trust was a PLC it would have folded long ago. An unethical convener - doesn't seem right to me.

After years of buying and selling things I've finally been let down - bizzarely by a Shetlander.... My closest call till now was an asian chap from Birmingham who bought a radio scanner from me and the cheque bounced - I thought that would be it. I contacted him and he apologised, advised he was changing bank accounts and a new cheque arrived a couple of days later. Faith in Ebay and human race restored. Now I've bought an item from someone in lerwick - okay, not expensive, but 5 weeks after winning the item, there's no sign of it. Paid by cheque (less than £5) and he had good feedback when I bought the item. Since I bought the item he's pissed around another couple of folk. Emailed him but no response. Anybody know (*** mod edit - name and address removed ***)? - I'll be paying him a visit when I'm up through the summer. Can't believe I've had no hassle with Ebay at all and them I'm let down by one of my own Islanders after always finding them so trustworthy.

I'm not sure about that. There was a bit of a spell between the end of the SVT flights and the consortium setting up shop there. I'm not sure how they'd have held on to their operating licence with no operations. Still, bit of a moot point I suppose. I don't really mean Scatsta Airport though, I mean the current IAC operation. IAC didn't exist before the Scatsta operation. The Brymon operation went from Unst to Scatsta and when Shell moved from Sumburgh the Brymon (was BA to end up with) opertion merged with the Shell operation and IAC was born. SVT had a Shorts 330 they were flying from Scatsta till the Dash 7's arrived from Unst. Dash 7's were fantastic planes, bit long in the tooth but their short take off and landing abilities were fantastic. Operation staying at Scatsta is a good result for everyone - except for HIAL, but they blew their chance 10 yrs ago when they wouldn't reduce their charges for Shell at Sumburgh.

So the fact that they are employing a few local staff, have offices in Shetland (leased/owned?) and use local transport for their local water and cream isn't worth anything. The existing products were only ever intended to help raise the capital for the distillery - says so in their original plan and the latest news story. How does this differ to Shetland salmon companies owned by the Norwegians? Let me think, how much do they pay to use the name 'Shetland' in their products? Who's patience and credibility - your's? well I guess that makes all the difference then and they should can the whole project. This is my last reply on this, I'm getting bored trying to provide a balanced view based on facts. We clearly have different opinions on this - I do believe they will be building a distillery. Delays with a new business like this, being largely funded privately were inevitable, the only problem being perhaps a somewhat unrealistic timetable not allowing for any problems.

http://www.shetland-news.co.uk/pages/news%20stories/03_2007/blackwood_posts_healthy_profits.htm Quote from above - looks clear to me "We have received no public money, no public loans, no grants - this has been entirely financed by private shareholders.

My only interest in this is as a token shareholder and I'm happy enough with the position to move back to Nesting. Rome wasn't built in a day - nor was the Bressay Bridge My other interest in this is as a local and watching the local economy being flushed down the pan by continued poor investments. Correct me if I'm wrong but the recent study into the investment returns from the charitable trust over the last 10 years was something like a return of £4 million from an investment of £125 million.