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DePooperit

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  1. 'Vod' is surely an old Old English or Saxon word (a dozen of words in Shetland lexicon are traceable to the old Saxon language). Obviously the same word as English obsolete wood, Sax. wod, ON óðr. The last word is related to 'ød', Sand/Wests 'yd' (to long for, to wish impatiently and anxiously; esp. of cattle), as given by Jakobsen. It a question whether JJ disregarded 'vod' as being Anglo-Saxon or just didn't catch it at all. It's certainly cognate with the Scots 'wod' or 'wud' with the meaning of 'mad', 'demented'. The 'vod' pronunciation doesn't suggest at first sight that it came by t
  2. Back to this one now: The reason I gave up writing the Shetland tongue was simply because there was no longer any point. Whatever you might say about the opinions or knowledge of the Shetland intelligentia and media, the fact is that they hold the knobs (can I say that?) that determine (or reflect, depending on your point of view) public opinion. Any form of Shetland writing that threatened to take on the characteristics of language rather than dialect must be seen as a threat, and come to be increasingly cited as a bad example. Anyway, my learning - if you mean academic learning - come
  3. Here's me answerin possts muckle sphincter (can I say dat?) first agen. I beg to differ. On a personal level I never heard the word "chuck" used anywhere in Shetland by anyone prior to the late 70's - considering multi channel TV and a Ro-Ro service arrived 76/77, I would contend that there may be some sort of correlation, but it was maybe nothing more than it took that long for the word usage to filter down to my bit of the south end. "Trash" on the other hand was in common usage by the oldest members of the community as early as I can remember, as in. "Yea, boy, goadliss weet simmer dis
  4. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. You queried whether it was English slang. Oh I see. What I said was 'The fact that 'chuck' is English (whether slang or not I don't know - I would say 'colloquial' English) doesn't mean that it isn't Shetland as well.' The important point here is that it is a word used in general English rather than a peculiarly or characteristically Shetland one (like 'bal' or 'bruck'). Whether it is 'slang' or not is more a matter of opinion than anything - the important point here is that it is used in general, if not quite standard, English. Not being
  5. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. The point is that Ghostrider repudiates its use while recommending 'trash', which is equally English, as preferable to 'bruck'. Not being used over all over the north of England doesn't mean that it isn't a northern English form - if that's what you're implying? Geordieland is in the North of England. Are you talking to me here? If so, I don't recall any argument of mine about abortion. Were you referring to something I said in particular? I would be interested to know what the characteristics of 'pigeon' (I think it's 'pidgin' BTW) S
  6. Obviously 'trash' was used in some places. But that doesn't alter my main point, which is that Ghostrider, while deploring the use of 'chuck' as' English slang,' prefers 'trash' - which is certainly as much an English word as 'chuck' is, in the sense of not being peculiarly Shetland - to 'bruck' which is, if not peculiarly Shetland (certainly Orkney as well) at least characteristically Shetland. So we have: Bal as against Chuck Bruck as against Trash (or sharn) - I meant sh*te - (sigh). In both cases, the left hand word is a particularly (if not exclusively) Shetland one, and the right one
  7. This is the nub of the problem. It is, in fact, a description of one aspect of the prevalent dialect ideology - not the Lowest Common Dialect ideology, which is one aspect and the most influential one, but the Infinite Variation ideology. Put as simply as possible, you cannot preserve all the variants of 'dialect' - because, ultimately, it varies not only with locality but with each individual - therefore this is not a mere Herculean, but an impossible task by definition. Moreover, you cannot 'preserve' language, because language changes anyway. An example of how dialect ideology falls between
  8. I don't have an anti-Norse attitude. What I am anti is the tendency for the Shetland tongue to be seen as of value only insofar as it is seen in relation to something else, because constant concentration on aspects such as etymology distract from the fact that the Shetland tongue, as spoken by my generation at any rate, is, or was, a coherent linguistic system in its own right, irrespective of where its words originate from. The reason I might have seemed to be anti-Norse on Shetlink is that most of the opinions which crop up here tend to be from the Norn perspective. Where these contain er
  9. The 'der' construction is, unfortunately, obscured by the reluctance of writers to spell the 'dae' bit as a separate word. That it is a separate word is clear from the following examples: Dae'r a maa on da ruif Ir dae a maa on da ruif? Dae wir a maa on da ruif Wir dae a maa on da ruif? Dae'r maas on da ruif Ir dae maas on da ruif? And even: Dae wid be maas on da ruif... Wid dae be maas on da ruif...? etc. The fact that 'dae' - as I spell it - can be used in questions in the form 'ir dae' and wir dae' shows that it is a separate word, and that the 'r' on the end is from 'ir' meani
  10. I can't understand how you can regard this passage as translated literally form English. “In that direction,†the Cat said, waving its right paw around, “lives a Hatter: “Doon yon wye,†said da Cat, wavin his richt paa aboot, “der a Hat-makker at bides: Where is the literal translation here? The Shetland translation doesn't have any literal translation of the English syntax. 'Doon yun wye' for 'In that direction' where a literalistic translation would have been 'In dat ert'; 'Der a hatter at bides' - using the characteristic Shetland constructin with 'der' (or 'dae'r' as I w
  11. My favourites: Poseidon: Another Christian that can't spell (hyphenate) or speak grammatically, And using the "no true Scotsman" Argument to boot Laughing Log on to any evangelical website and the first thing you'll notice is their lack of basic English. Edit. Not just a sleight on Christians, I also pull up non Christians on bad grammar and spelling. _________________ If God wanted us to believe in her she would exist. AND I would have thought basic English would be a requirement for admission to uni? Your childish deliberate misspelling above says a lot about you. Smile
  12. Well, there's (at least) two possible stages - the first would involve only the mods knowing peoples' real names, and the second posting using only real names. Many forums allow posting under a pseudonym but require real names etc. (though I don't suppose many of them check up on them) for registration. That would allow anonymity for posting but still maybe make folk think twice about what they say. I would have thought that, in a place the size of Shetland, fake names and addresses would be more easily 'rumbled'. Wouldn't make it any easier in the case of posters from outwith, of course.
  13. Maybe it is. But most of it is still in English, mostly because many of the queries are from people outside of Shetland. Obviously if someone asks a question in standard English and they're obviously not from Shetland, you're going to reply in standard English. So there's a situation where, while you know you can post in the Shetland tongue in the Shetland section, most of the time you don't; and whether you can or not in the forum at large is a good question. But I return to the point which several people have mentioned. Anonymity is the real problem. I wonder how many of those who make
  14. So what's your point... **Mod edit - personal insult removed - let's keep things civil** I'm sure there must be a Latin phrase which, when unpacked into standard English, communicates the point that further comment is unnecessary as the point has been adequately demonstrated by the efforts of the opposition.
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