PoliceScotlandShetland

Blue lights - Under the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations ​Ref blue / green lights on vehicles. Only Emergency vehicles can display blue lights and only medical vehicles can display green lights. There are a number of vehicles on the roads in Shetland with blue lights - this is illegal and we will shortly begin to enforce this. The issue has been raised a number of times during the police plan consultation process and we've given people the opportunity to remove the blue lights. If they continue to be displayed / used further action will be taken (caution & char gem fixed penalty, reported, etc) I trust this answers the question and we will be doing something about it. Angus

This joint (police / fire) phase of the consultation process is looking at the multi member ward issues in particular and these meetings give each ward an opportunity to add issues or highlight particular points that are relevant to their particular area. Examples include: Shetland North - lighting on vehicles on the A970, speeding & manner of driving on A970 (Road Safety) North Isles (Fetlar) - visits by the police to the local school (Community Engagement) Lerwick North & South - drunk people in the town centre (substance misuse, violence, disorder & anti-social behaviour) I would welcome your comments, please be sure to include the multi member ward you live in or feel the issue / priority applies to. Angus

The priorities that have been developed in the consultation process so far are: 1. Maintain Public Confidence & Local Engagement 2. Substance Misuse 3. Road Policing 4. Violence, Disorder & Anti-social Behaviour 5. Protecting People 6. Serious & Organised Crime 7. Emergency Planning & Resilience These will be contained in the Local Police Plan for Shetland and as ever your comments would be appreciated. Angus

@ Who Knows, Apologies for the delay in replying. The "local police" view is the same as the national view / guidance which can be found on a variety of web sites, with the main one being: https://www.gov.uk/browse/driving/highway-code Angus

@JustMe, Passengers and vehicles are checked as / when able. The majority of people welcome the dogs and given that the use of "drug dogs" is something we all regulary experience as we travel around the country / world. Angus

Hi, I'll answer a few points here and then add a further comment about the priorities so far, hopefully the discussion can then focus on the valid process of selecting issues / priorities as opposed to being distracted by side issues. The recent Police & Fire Reform legislation requires that the police and fire consult with the local communities and are in turn held accountable through a new "local scrutiny & engagement" framework. In Shetland we have expanded that framework - called the Shetland Community Safety Board (SCSB) - to include any agency (public as well as the third sector) that contributes to the "safer & stronger" objective. For Shetland that means the Police, Fire, NHS, Ambulance, CoastGuard, Third Sector, SIC Community Safety, SEPA, SIC Emergency Planning, NHS, Criminal Justice Authority, etc - in short we are continuing to develop the group to include any relevant agency. If you can think of one I've not included then please let me know. The members of the SCSB are all held accountable to 7 SIC elected representatives - one for each multi member ward. Part of that legislation requires that the police and fire consult with the communities they serve as they develop their plans. For the first time in Shetland, this is being done jointly by the police and fire. If the process works with these two agencies, and it is appropriate, then next year we can look at including other agencies. Each multi member ward has at least one fire station and given that it is the police / fire plan consultation process then that is where the meetings are being held. No matter where the meetings are held some people would have to travel further than others. (The North Isles ward will get more than one meeting - purely due to the geography / ferries, etc.) As for liability - that rests with the road users, not the people organising an event that any person is travelling to. This is the final phase of the consultation process. Previous phases include: 1. Community survey - minimum of 75 people per multi member ward 2. Written request for consultation to all community councils and over 100 other "community groups 3. Meeting with the SCSB elected representatives 4. The on-line discussions on Shetlink. 5. Police attendance at some community meetings. This year's process will be reviewed in preparation for next year's process. Angus

Scalloway has a Public Hall which is in the middle of the village whilst the Fire Station is quite a way outside the village. This means that those who do not drive will, very probably, not attend your meeting. To attend, non drivers would be obliged to walk on a busy and fairly narrow section of main road which has no pavement or lighting for a distance of at least 1/2 mile of it's length. Well thought out (not). Why? As you claimed, recently, that the Police have a duty(?) in respect of public safety, I would also be interested in hearing who would be deemed (at least partially) liable should a pedestrian be injured on his/her way to the meeting. Colin, Thanks for raising this point. The Scalloway meeting is for all residents who live in the Shetland Central ward - covering Burra to Tingwall and not exclusively just for Scalloway residents. The venues were set after discussion between partner agencies with the Scalloway fire station being selected as it has amble parking (it is anticipated that more attendees will be driving that walking) and it also allows people to view the fire station. However, should anyone from Scalloway need a lift they can let me know and the police community contact van will be a Scalloway Public Hall at 645pm to take them to the fire station and can then return them to the public hall afterwards. Angus

Hi, As part of the on-going consultation process for the policing & fire plans for Shetland a series of public meetings re being held throughout Shetland over the next few weeks - anyone is welcome to attend any event. Fetlar Community Hall, 07.01.2013 at 7pm; Lerwick Fire Station, Wednesday 8th January at 7pm; Baltasound JHS, Tuesday 14th at 6pm; Scalloway Fire Station, Wednesday 15th at 7pm; Bixter Hall, Thursday 16th at 7pm; Sandwick Fire Station, Thursday 23rd at 7pm; Mid Yell Fire Station, Friday 24th at 6pm Whalsay Fire Station, Saturday 25th at 6.30pm. Please attend these meetings to let us (police & fire) know what you think the issues priorities should be. Tonights meetings was at Brae Fire Station where the issues highlighted to the police were: Synthetic HighsSpeeding vehicles - including buses, lorries and carsRisky overtakingVehicle lightingAnti-social behaviour near licensed premises. Angus

I have a slight(?) problem with this. Not being a drug user myself (apart from nicotine and the occaisonal dose of alcohol..), I wonder if the police have the right to make the rules in this way? If you, or one of your officers, decides to confiscate a 'legal high' type of drug on the grounds that you are keeping people 'safe' (even though there are no declared 'rules'), it would appear to be a pretty subjective interpretation of the law. 'Policing by consent' (whose consent ?) seems to be taking over from 'innocent until proven guilty'. Colin, Items (synthetic highs) are seized because they are suspected to contain illegal substances. Lab tests then give us results - some are illegal and the person possessing them will be reported. Some (synthetic highs) are found to be legal and as with any other piece of seized property they are returned. That is why the police prefer to call them "synthetic highs" as we don't know they are legal until they're tested. "Keeping People Safe" is the focus, which is primarily done by law enforcement. (Seizing and testing the substance to see if it is illegal) Angus

With due respect, the same can be said for cannabis. You only arrest on suspicion (don't you?) that it is cannabis and only once tested do you know for a fact that it is, indeed, cannabis. Likewise, if someone is in possession of prescribed medication not prescribed for their use, off it goes to Forensics ... no idea if Dundee(?) has the same timescales as Birmingham or whether you have the luxury of LCG (and then you get into the joys of the Prosecution arguing as to what amount can be deemed as 'fit for use'). Call me old-fashioned, but I was brought up to believe that the main purpose of the Police was to uphold the law; I don't buy into this nanny state ideology re keeping people 'safe'. I can understand about Police attending, for example, a football match or similar event for crowd control purposes but again, that's also to ensure public order offences aren't committed. There is Victim Support and other organisations providing support to victims of crimes; the Police are not social workers. Granted, at times your officers may feel like they are but they are not. I don't buy into this community engagement ideology either - politicians come up with ideas "oh, let's see how the public want their local area policed and we'll have a few quangos so they can sit around a table and have tea and biccies" - so you get the same old, same old faces and wannabe politicians working their way up by joining such committees. In order for the Police to really police in how people want them to police at a local level would involve a change in the politicians representing them at national level and for those elected nationally to hold the same viewpoints as those at a local level and then for the law to change - I don't think that is possible. Look at what happened when years ago the locals backed the idea of de-criminalised red light zone in Leith. It was brilliant. The female police officer struck up a good rapport with the prostitutes, discovered many did NOT have pimps, health workers were involved and drug crime drastically reduced. Those who did have pimps who had introduced them to crack and heroin came off drugs, knowing that they could work the streets without a bullying pimp, and for all of the working girls the fear of the revolving door scenario (nicked, court, back on street to pay for fine, nicked, court, prison) was removed thus freeing up a lot of Police and Court time (not to mention all the other agencies involved). Mug shots were introduced advising working girls of which violent punters to avoid and if the prostitutes were attacked, the Police nicked the perpetrators. Local women (not sex workers) no longer harrassed. The Police thought it was a great success ... and then some yuppies moved in, objected and the whole area got re-developed by some trendy property developers ... and the problems with prostitution got transferred to another area. The permitted red light zone couldn't be transferred though because the objectors used the existing laws. So for many things, you can't change policing on a local level to reflect what a community would like to see. The above may be deemed an extreme example but it's an example nevertheless. If you don't tell us which synthetic highs are legal, then we can't give 'informed consent'. What use is consent if we don't know to what we're consenting? Besides, people have to be responsible for their own actions. If that means we don't see the Police unless we're nicked/cautioned then apart from this thread, I'm not seeing any difference - we NEVER see you (the Police) in person. You get drunk, you get nicked. The Police are not there to save people's livers; it is no different to stopping me from smoking a fag and saving my lungs. You speak of desires - but are they the desires of the community and unless you speak individually to all members of the community, you won't know what the community desires. Hi, I'll add a few comments here and then do a separate reply on the priorities and issues that have been discussed over the past few weeks. On the whole do not arrest people for cannabis, or for that matter any other illegal drugs, possession - Sec 23 Misuse of Drugs Act allows for searching someone we suspect has illegal drugs. There are powers within that legislation that allow us to seize items and if necessary take someone back to the police station to carry out the search. In Shetland the vast majority of S23 searches do not involve taking people to the station (I don't have the figure to hand but estimate that over 85% don't go to the station). There are cases were people are arrested for being concerned in the supply of illegal drugs (i.e. a drug dealer) but the personal possession cases generally involve a search, testing and a crime report to the PF. Lab times vary and are out with our control given that they are provided to Police Scotland by the SPA. We keep people safe through law enforcement and education. (The main part of our work being "enforcement") For example - people are told what substances are legal / illegal, if they're found with an illegal substance the law is enforced. Over the past year we've increased the number of licensed premises checks by 114% and now violence is down by 44%. Most licensed premises visits are about engaging with the community (i.e. talking to people without the need to caution and charge them) and the result is a significant drop in crime. As part of this process Police Scotland Shetland have surveyed over 600 people, contacted / emailed approximately 100 community groups (approximately 10-12 replied), visited a number of community meetings, met with local elected members and had this on-line forum (which seems to have generated a good deal of discussion both on line and by passing comment). These are two examples of community engagement - it works by the mere fact we're engaged in this forum. I agree that people are responsible for their own actions and I have no issues with law enforcement, that's part of what we're paid to do. Thank you for the discussion and your engagement over the past few weeks. I'll do a summary reply on the priorities / issues. What are people's views on keeping a discussion thread running on "police / law enforcement / community engagement"? Angus

Unlinked Student, My comment about discussing whether or not something is illegal / legal was made from the view point that, with many of the new "synthetic high" substances we do not know if they are legal / illegal until they are tested and by the time the results become known there is a risk that someone else takes it and is ill or suffers a more serious consequence. There are a limited number of public servants dealing with various issues - for the police our main aim it to keep people safe. Just because it is legal does not mean it is safe, hence the desire to do something while talking about issues. You're comment on the police not giving drugs education or crime prevention advice is interesting - it certainly would free up some police time for law enforcement. The flip side is that our main contact with people will be when we warn or caution & charge them as opposed to community engagement - what are people's thoughts on that? Would that run the risk of weakening our "policing by consent' style?. Angus

Hi, The consultation process for the priorities and issues finishes at the end of October and I'mmeeting with the elected members, who sit on the Shetland Community Safety Board on Thursday 24th October. I will be taking the comments from this forum, along with a variety of other meetings / surveys / correspondence to that meeting to allow for an informed discussion on what people see as the priorities / issues. Please keep the comments coming - it's gone quiet over the past week. Angus (Shetland Community Safety Board - the local scrutiny board where the police and fire & rescue service are held accountable by the local community. There are seven SIC councillors on the board as well as the NHS, SIC Emergency Planning, SIC Community Safety, SIC Strategic Risk, VAS, Coastguard, Ambulance Service, Victim Support and others. Every member has a role to play in making sure Shetland is as safe as possible)

Hi, Not forgotten about the "being seen as much as seeing". This week we are participating in the "Get Read for Winter Campaign" which includes vehicle lights. There are 40% fewer incidents of violence so far this year and we will continue to deal with each one as quickly and firmly as possible. I agree with the need for more honesty in relation to substance misuse - drink, drugs and synthetic highs. They all have an impact on the community and we all need to deal with the issues. Over 65% of the serious crime in Shetland has alcohol some where in the equation. I'd be interested to hear more about the "dangerous dogs". Angus

Hi, Yes it is amazing how many people still use their mobile phone when driving. We have dealt with over 50% more offences for mobile phone use this year (compared with last year). There is a reason for it being against the law to use your mobile when driving - it is a pity some driver's ignore it. Angus

Colin, Yes the police bikes are still here. We (myself included) just need to use them more. As long as a vehicle is road worthy / insured, etc there is no reason why it cannot be legitimately used. I say legitimately as there are provisions for abnormal loads (wide, etc) where we would work with the operators to ensure safe movement. Angus