Windwalker

We are clearly at opposite ends on this and I agree I’m completely against independence in this manner, where the country has already made a decision some short years ago and were in the middle of a pandemic. My position was that I wanted to see if I was missing something. Unfortunately there is little that has convinced me that we’re not better of in the union. You will be surprised to learn that I’m not completely against independence. Personally what I’d like to see is the Scottish government convincing me they can improve our lot, devolved issues like education improve rather than decline, then let’s seek more devolved areas and bit by bit get to a stage where it makes sense to our population to take that final step, where the evidence is clear that it makes good sense for the country. I’m sorry if you disagree with me but I can’t see the evidence at this point in time. It just too big a risk in my opinion. Clearly my joke offended you, that was not it’s intention so I’m happy to apologise, I thought the winky emoji would confirm that it was a joke. Where we stand at present I’m not convinced that Sturgeon will get another vote in the near future and even if she does, I hope that with the obvious lack of clear information she doesn’t win. As a back up plan in case she wins, I hope Shetland has the sense to become a crown dependency. I’ll likely be 6 feet under by that time. However if we were to take peerie steps meantime. I might jump on board. Lets agree to disagree.

Roachmill, you continue to try and belittle me, which seems to be the tactics of SNP supporters, if we don’t have the answers we will try to make the non believers look bad. I’m sorry if you find my attempts to understand your position annoying and you dismiss that fact I’m worried for potential outcomes for our country. I certainly am not looking for cast iron guarantees but agree my concerns are that we end up considerably worse off. The problem seems to be that the SNP and many of its supporters blatantly dismiss everything which doesn’t meet their agenda and can’t really come anywhere near giving any evidence of how Scotland will be better off. You suggest being in charge as our own affairs as an answer, but want to hand these powers back to the EU. They will eventually control our currency, borrowing etc. The same as they do with the likes of Greece. I’ll agree to disagree with you.

George with all due respect, your posts do that for you. It certainly comes across as that. I could pick up on your spelling George, but let’s just blame Westminster;-)

The problem is, is there is insufficient knowledge of possible outcomes, no doubt from Sturgeon down, but we are still being told by the SNP that Scotland would be stronger on its own ! How? Today, according to the London school of economics they say the costs of independence would be 2-3 times higher than for Brexit. Academics from the LSE have concluded that independence would hit the Scottish economy harder than Brexit and re-joining the EU would make little difference. It suggests that independence would cause an equivalent loss of £2,000 - £2800 per person in Scotland. This worries me. I was hoping that the staunch SNP voters on here could convince me of the benefits of independence. If they all feel independence is going to improve our lot, could they share the information which has lead to that decision. If not why are they not happy to admit that they want out of the union regardless of outcome and cost to our country.

George your constant hate of everything English is certainly consistent and in previous posts you go back 300 years to blame James VI for creating the union. But what you forget to mention is the act of the union bailed out an otherwise bankrupted Scotland following its disastrous attempt to build its own trading empire, you don’t mention that more Scots fought with Cumberland at Culloden than against him. You don’t mention how the union helped end centuries of wars between our nations. Scotland has done quite well out of the union in the last 300 years. Today Scots benefit from public spending that is around 10% higher then the U.K. average. If a bit of pandering to Westminster gets that result, I’m all for it.

I see the statement of gaining political freedom as nothing other than a strap line. It doesn’t answer the questions about the effects of our such so called political freedom. Then when you get it, you want to give it away to the EU. How about discussing issues such as the effect on currency, budget deficits, what happens if the EU refuse re-entry and if they do what might the terms be. Hard or soft border with England and the consequences. The issues with the carving up of U.K. assets and more importantly dept etc. What will happen to Scotland funding if Shetland decides to become a crown dependency taking its oil and fishing waters with it. the reasons you/they don’t rush to their keyboards is not because I made a joke it’s because you/they would rather have a dig as deal with the concerns of those who can’t understand why so many SNP voters are happy to push ahead without answers to important questions. there’s nothing you’ve added that convinces me that some folk are determined to split the union regardless of the outcome for our country and without knowing the consequences. In other words ‘walking towards it blindly’

@JGHR, just another point. You say Greigs is already bailing out of Shetland, the suggestion being due to Brexit. Perhaps you should read Greigs own statement where they clearly say that all their Scottish sites are failing to make money, due to high morality and problems with jellyfish, COVID etc. Hence like any company with investors they have to make changes. No where do they mention or blame Brexit. Tavish Scott however has said that he believes the operation will be bought out and continue in some form, let’s hope so for the sake of all its employees.

First past the post may not suit your agenda, but it’s what the country runs by at this time. Let’s see if you question it if the SNP wins the next Scottish elections. The reason I’m now glad to be out of the EU is because my eyes have been opened and I’ve seen their true colours. They constantly tell us they are our friends yet have used every trick in the book to try and screw us over. They are an undemocratic slow moving, bureaucratic money wasting entity. Just this week we see them trying to justify that the U.K., who were quick of the mark, should hand over our jabs to them to the extent they were prepared to create a border in Ireland. Unbelievable action that has shown to create a dangerous situation resulting in EU border staff having to be removed for their own safety. They then realised their mistake and reversed the decision, accepted they had been slow off the mark, then within days changed their tune and said it wasn’t they were slow it was the U.K. who were too fast. You can’t make this stuff up. They use Ireland to fight their cause then screwed them over. They didn’t even have the decency to inform them they were about to close their border. It’s clear they will do what they can to ensure the U.K. fails because they know other countries will come to realise they would be better out than in. I could go on. I’m also glad that we are so far ahead with COVID jabs, that many of our friends, family and loved ones lives might be saved. I fully realise the consequences of the effects on our local businesses and believe in the main these will be short term, we are already seeing issues, blockages etc being resolved and the government offering financial support. Today alone the SNP announced 7.5 million for our fisheries. Such a major change will have a number of negativities, but I look to the future and believe the opportunities and markets opening up for our locals suppliers will eventually benefit them far greater than the EU. At last someone offers a specific advantage of an independent Scotland and you say that will be Scotland re-joining the EU. A bold statement. How about putting some meat on the bones and explain all the positives, whilst doing that will you be willing to clearly explain the negatives and risks to our country or will you continue the same game of avoiding the things the SNP will try to hide. when I get a bit more time I’ll happily lay out the major concerns I have.

Perhaps we should also stop all foreign vessels fishing for these same shellfish, after all if our catch isn’t good enough to ship to the EU we shouldn’t allow them to catch them in our waters to take to the EU.

They did and they called them the SNP

Having followed many discussions for some time, it comes up, particularly with one individual, in addition whilst the word may not be mentioned the content says it all. unfortunately all governments be it U.K. or SNP make false and misleading statements all the time, as far as I’m concerned I really don’t trust any of them. My worry is those who can’t see fault in certain parties and hit out at anyone who dares not to agree with their views, over powering the conversation, nit picking and therefore stiffening discussion. I’ve seen that on many forums including Shetlink. For clarity the last sentence is not aimed at you or anyone in particular, it’s how I often feel and why I gave up posting earlier in the year. Dealing with COVID was enough hassle. Whilst I accept that government are constantly trying to score political points against each other, wouldn’t it be great if those in power would all work together to defeat this pandemic for the good of the population. Rant over.

Completely agree. I can’t think of any vote I’ve made recently where I felt either side was providing sufficient information for myself to make a “well” educated decision. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut.

Whilst I’ve already explained in a few posts above my comment on democracy, I’ll try and clarify it again. If you go through a number of posts on here they state the outcome of either Brexit or independence was not democratic, whilst offering no supporting evidence to clarify or justify their views. In my opinion they just can’t accept democracy. my comments were not aimed directly at Evil Inky but in general and we’re giving with the same level of sarcasm he offered me. As I’ve already confirmed in a post above, I have no issue with him or anyone else having different views and making them known. That after all is democracy.

I agree that the tories attempts to bypass parliament was unacceptable. This was quite rightly dealt with by the high court. The final decision on the outcome was democratic. My general concern about democracy is to do with both Brexit and Scottish independence and continued unjustified quotes that they were undemocratic made on these pages. If folk want to make these statements, they should at least back them up. For the record I have no more love for the Tories than I do for the SNP.

Not at all roachmill everyone is entitled to their views and to question the government. God help us when folk don’t. My issue with not accepting democracy was aimed at those who keep saying it was not done democratically, whilst at the same time unwilling to provide any proof of that. You go ahead and and stick to your views. Fill your boots.

Hi Reece, I would think an independent Scotland would be disastrous and re-joining the EU hardly makes it independent. I don’t know enough about how becoming part of Norway would affect us and I don’t think we could make it as a sovereign state. My vote would go to becoming a crown dependency, could this be added to the vote?

To be honest I’m surprised that some folk still cannot accept democracy.

Mind you George, it’s a pleasant change to see you showing a similar dislike to a Scot and a Scottish king at that.

So really what your saying is that you don’t care what the outcome or effects on the country might be as long as you feel you’ve gone one up on England for something that happened in the 1600s. Wow you can hold a grudge for some time George.

Vote SNP ! WHY. George I gave you every opportunity a couple of nights ago to give me some good reasons why we should vote for independence, yet your only and consistent reply is because you clearly hate Westminster. Nothing about how we will benefit as a country and nothing about the negative effects of independence. You clearly want us to close our eyes, cover our ears, vote SNP and hope for the best. Westminster isn’t giving away our fishing waters, they are taking it back. The SNP on the other hand intends to put it back under EU control, who will give more of it away to foreign vessels, just as they are doing to Irish waters. Open your eyes.

To begin with I answered your sweeping statement regarding the CPPTP and trade in general, you obviously couldn’t argue the reply, so you resort to changing the question to specifics, but let me answer your question, no I haven’t told the fishermen this, I didn’t realise it was my place to do it. We have had a dramatic change to our usual ways of trading with the EU and yes this has had a knock on effect to some exporters, particularly our fishing industry. These are teething issues for which the government has offered compensation and these teething issues will in time settle down again. That is already being seen. The gain will for our fishermen and fish exporters will be the opening up of new markets and eventually larger quotas. I agree the government should have been dealt with a lot better, after all they had years to work towards it.

Thanks George

Really !

Loss! The deal with the EU allows us to continue trading with the EU, in addition it opens up loads of new markets, operating without having to pay millions in each week and some unelected body deciding our laws and regulation. It’s a win win.

You could well be right, there are just too many uncertainties for me and no doubt plenty of others to make an educated judgement regarding independence. If I thought for one minute Scotland and more importantly to me Shetland would be better off I would vote for it, but nothing has come close to me seeing it as an option so far. Now the other discussion is Shetland independence/crown dependency, but dats a discussion for another time. Thus ald ein needs der sleep. Thanks for da input, it’s been a while since I’m been on here.