Suffererof1crankymofo

HOW much? http://www.shetlandarts.org/images/2012/04/Crowd-Safety-Assistant-JP.pdf

No doubt visiting tourists will totally agree with you, SP, as they whip out their portable printers ... that's if they have portable devices. Guess it's too much to ask for a professional website with clear information displayed without the need to rotate the PDF; after all, surely it didn't cost a fortune to design, did it? Might be a bigger plus to have checked place names too; there isn't a Thistle Place.

The "new" Scotland is also well ahead on a gross infringement of civil liberties and that I'd be more than happy to dump. The legislation pertaining to vulnerable adults is often misused and abused by local authorities. They prefer to focus on the disabilities of a person as opposed to the person, and whilst adored by social workers, the legislation has been criticised by more than one charity. Let's not forget the children's guardian legislation too, more state interference; again criticised for not being thought through adequately, etc.

Agreed @JustMe. Pain in the neck to have to rotate the blooming PDF leaflet when looking online though to see the times ... and just where the hell is "Thistle Place"? The layout isn't clear compared to the old online layout. Tried the app thingy ... no Sumburgh to Lerwick option was available; had to choose the Lerwick to Sumburgh option.

SP, I wasn't insinuating anything; I genuinely have no idea whether the local slaughterhouse has got CCTV or not. DEFRA decided elsewhere that they wouldn't make it compulsory requirement. IF the slaugterhouse hasn't got CCTV, it MIGHT be a reason why Grotesco's doesn't purchase local meat. Was the local meat you refer to up here or elsewhere in the UK? The only thing I heard (hearsay) was to do with Grotesco's packaging requirements for up here. Personally, I couldn't give a stuff if there is CCTV in the slaugterhouse or not and I'm not particularly thrilled with overpackaging either.

Tesco's do sell some local produce, including fish caught locally. Re local meat: Isn't it the case that the main UK supermarkets have agreed that the slaughterhouses must have CCTV? Does the Shetland one have CCTV? Tesco's don't have sufficient warehouse capacity up here, me thinks. Fresh may well be best but many families cannot afford fresh, don't have garden space to grow it and/or don't have the dosh to get to an allotment if one was available.

I haven't signed the petition. I don't think the councillors are the crux of the problem at the SIC. IMHO, what is the problem at the SIC is the ingrained attitude of some (and I stress some) of the civil servants upon which Ghostie touched upon earlier. We don't know what the Chief Executive is doing behind closed doors to address this, if at all. But I do know that some Chief Executives elsewhere in the UK do when they get appointed, they insist on all staff attending a speech by the new Chief Executive. I remember snippets from one I attended:- Think all those living in council housing should be grateful we've provided a roof over their heads? Change your attitude or there's the door. Think a tenant experiencing a leak from a flat above should be grateful they're not paying a plumber £100 per hour and be grateful we're sending one out at all? Change your attitude or there's the door. We've always done it like this - be open to change and admit when you're wrong or there's the door. And so on. Three hours of listening to how he wanted to bring about change, how his door was open to any and all members of staff. The Head of Finance walked within 2 months. A key player in the Housing Dept walked approximately 6 months later. Guess what? Things improved dramatically. ---------- Councillors can't change things overnight. They can't even change things in one term in office. They also rely on how the press reports things. Where are all the pertinent questions asked in the chamber being reported? Having council minutes saying "A discussion then took place" AREN'T minutes but are notes of a meeting. So no, I'd blame quite a few of the management as opposed to the councillors. To a degree, councillors are in a no win situation because they can't intervene in individual cases and as far as I understand it, it's the Chief Executive who is in charge of the sinking ship. If councillors have concerns about how things are done then it's down to the Chief Executive and those under him re the day-to-day running of services, not the councillors. Sign a petition to sack many of the Heads of Dept/Managers within the SIC? I'd sign it in a flash.

Tuts, you heard wrong. The actual rumour is that Chevez never died and was actually kidnapped by the Americans. Utilising the Hedron Collider, Chevez is alive and kicking inside Uncle Alec's body. Chevez is determined to carry out his master plan ... ... rumour has it that Uncle Alec actually met his demise on Trump's golf course.

Don't bring "life" into it, they already dictate in law certain things you can and can't do because as sane adults, we couldn't simply want to do certain things of our own free will! Let me know when the T-shirts go on sale.

Are you suggesting that unless you've seen other people die that you have no right to plan your own exit?

So basically you're saying that to see people scream in absolute agony until they pass out when they can't stand the pain no more is more humane? I don't think so. Face it, paulb, most domesticated animals in agony get treated better than humans do ... ... so it's okay to end an animal's life but not a human's life? Why is that then? What gives another human being the right to choose; isn't a death a death regardless? I happen to agree with Ghostie and SP on this one.

You know Tesco's have those self-serve tills thingies? Well, looks like they've adopted the same scenario at the Co-op, 'lay-your-own' car park. You want tarmac? Take some bitumen from the ...

Klargester do small systems.

Has the noise from your turbine deafened you, paulb?

Why not ask the SCT if they would rather fund smaller community wind turbines or other schemes (heat pumps, etc.) than invest in VE? With respect, what you fail to be grasping here is the totally non-democratic way in which VE has come about. Shetland won't be getting electricity from VE. There are places in the Shetland Isles without mains electricity supplied by the mainstream lekky company already.

Missing the target altogether so, I'll spell it out for you. Shetland will not be benefitting, by way of electricity, from VE. Last I heard was that the plan(?) was to ship(?) it all south. As for 'saving the planet' etc. Rubbish. There is almost as much damage caused by the material extraction/manufacturing process as with existing methods. Not only that, mainland UK is a very greedy baby and, the more you give it (electricity) the more it will want. 4th option: Go ahead with VE and bankrupt Shetland. Why would England buy electricity from here when hydro-produced electricity from across the water might be cheaper and in supply when the wind isn't blowing? As for other comments: I lived in London for years; I wouldn't say that the flicker from a wind turbine isn't the same as a lorries going by; ask anyone who lives near the A13. Windfarms pollute ... or have you not seen the oiled beaches from offshore wind turbines, not to mention the damage to the planet from producing wind turbines in the first place. SP, yes, TVs flicker ... but at least you have the option to turn them off.

Who?

It is a right pain though when the sun is behind a fence on a hill and you're driving through the valley. Oh nooooos, I mentioned driving ... flicker on roads? paulb, you never seen the reflections of the moon on the sea? You can end up with more than one reflection of the moon. That's what I mean about flicker on the lochs and it can reflect off the loch. Ghostie has described a 'mirage' of boats at sea in sunshine being reflected in fog on the other side of a hill (so the boats at sea actually appeared to be on land); did the flicker shadow survey take that weather scenario into account then?

So you're saying that between 40 minutes to 3 hours flicker a day is acceptable? That link is to a shadow map. Where does it indicate the allowance for 'bouncing shadows' off a loch, or off another hill? You don't need to be within 840m to experience the effects of flicker. Care to define "real flicker"? An annoyance is an annoyance, whether said turbine blade rotates at a slow speed or a fast speed. So if a light switch was turned off every 5 seconds or every 15 seconds, there would still be a difference in the light in the room.

So essentially, paulb, they could have blades that cause flicker, couldn't they? Have you not seen the video clips available throughout the web showing flicker from the larger wind turbines?

Isn't it the case that VE haven't actually stated what model turbines they are going to actually use? I can't find a specific model referred to on their website.

And you're just as consistent in missing the point, one being that they decided to replace them before they reached 25 years in age. because they produce more power for less turbines and a better built. simple commercial sense. How often do we hear that there will only be X No. wind turbines and they will only be Xft high and no, they won't be any higher ... only for years later, they go ahead and replace them with larger ones? VE has a tight window re making a return. 5 years out of 25 years is quite a chunk. What we're not being told is the entire story. Did the old ones go through more gearboxes than anticipated, for example? She also stated that the windfarm wasn't paid for with local money ... so just what benefits did the local community get?

@ paulb - she gave her experiences. How, incidentally, can you categorically state there will be less flicker from the ones proposed for VE - are they moving all the water in the lochs then? Doesn't flicker also include a reflection? Maths too, there's proposed to be more turbines here than the windfarm she is referring to.

And you're just as consistent in missing the point, one being that they decided to replace them before they reached 25 years in age.

I believe I did do a link earlier in this thread, SP.