The Cleaner

^Agreed, my winking emoji didn't appear.

I'm left wondering how this proposed shelter will be 'healthy' - considering its most prolific users are most likely to be alkis looking to get pissed and sleep it off in relative peace, smackheads shooting up and adolescent teens performing carnal experimentation.

Yeah but they'll be doing it in the healthy sea air with the benefit of a good view, so good for the soul!

True George but at least it was something useful & cost effective being done with our waste & toonies aren't getting it for free.

I am not & have not disputed anybody's right to free speech or have made any claims that anyone is curbing mine. I just pointed out that I was exercising the right to it too. I'm sorry if it read as unfair, my initial post was intended to express my surprise (& I still am) at the choice of platform as I did explain in further posts. Maybe there was a specific reason for sharing this particular video? I wanted to know if a specific point was being made or was it just to share pictures that would really only have meaning to a relative few. I would wager that France's "Shetland blog" will always have a wider appeal because of the subject & as we agree, is clearly labelled. Yes I did notice that YouTube is in the link which made me think it would be more about their job than it was as that would be more relevant to a wider audience than say family & friends on Facebook.

I didn't say that "I didn't want" a reply to my question, re female essy cart worker, I said it wasn't needed as I was hoping it was a tongue in cheek comment. I did notice the emoticon & no I am not fluent in their use but I was hoping that was it's meaning.

On the plus side this that I see as a storm in a teacup may have got his video more attention!

WTF doesn't even come close Ghostie! Will district heating even exist in the foreseeable Urabug?!

Well hymn singing can ofcourse be enjoyed by anybody for any reason though I don't recall even one incidence of anyone I went to school with being even a little keen on taking part. We were all into either country & western music (very popular in Shetland then with all ages but not born of our culture) or the pop music of the day. I'm not denying it was part of our culture but that was for a reason, that being that Christianity was more actively practiced in the past. People have chosen not to or at least changed the ways they practice religion in the UK as a whole now. All parts of our (& others) culture stemmed from some reasoning & it adapts over time with people's needs & wants. Being nostalgic for the old tradition of singing hymns at school is fine, nice if you have happy memories of that. If you do I can understand you wanting the younger generations to "benefit" too. The trouble is generations don't always share the same view on what is beneficial. As far as I know, most if not all schools have some sort of singing lessons & I'm guessing the kids enjoy that more than hymns at assembly. I know my offspring did, though now out of school ten years. The three schools (2 primarys & a secondary) I attended in Shetland have all been rebuilt since my days & now have halls so they are able to have assemblys. I've not heard that hymn singing has been dropped from the curriculum, can anyone with school age kids or relatives enlighten us? I don't see any evidence that incoming influences have had a relevant effect on this part of our culture.

As far as the hymn singing at school morning assembly goes my own experience of this is such: I have attended three primary schools, the first (a regular non denominational) in London in a very multi cultural area where we had once a week assemblys with prayer & hymn singing. The other two schools here in Shetland, in the first the only nod to religion was the prayer said before eating our dinner, "for the food we are about to receive.....". The next school was similar to the London school but with the prayer at the dinner table too. Most of the time I was at this school my teacher was someone who said themselves that Christianity (particularly of the variety he followed) was his favourite subject & he shoe horned as much of it as possible into our school day starting with a morning prayer in class & bringing his religion into every subject if at all possible. This teacher was also the head of the school & he stopped us having the Up Helly Aa holiday because of it being a Pagan festival! As for the secondary school I attended here, it was the same as my first Shetland primary, just the usual prayer at the dinner table. In fact for at least the last year (of four) at this school a large plaque with this prayer scribed on it was displayed in our canteen & no praying was actually done verbally anymore. My schooling was from 1969 to 1980 to give you a timeline. Certainly my experience has been the amount of Christianity brought into the school day was tempered by practicality, smaller schools then didn't necessarily have room to hold an assembly. Going by what I've seen in Shetland, congregation numbers have fallen in many churches & some churches have been sold or are in use less frequently. Funnily enough I believe the Catholic churches congregation has increased some, in part because of eastern European immigrants. It seems to me that this part of our culture (Christianity) has changed because many have wanted it to or have lost interest in it for whatever reason/s. The people I know that are religious are more influenced by their family background than their schooling. Some may feel that religion & education shouldn't be mixed, but that's for another debate & thread.

That same freedom of speech gives me the right to ask the question in the polite way that I believe I did. I have nothing against people posting videos but they usually put them on this type of site in relation to, or at least to start a discussion. I was wondering what discussion they were aiming for? As for Frances' daily blog, it is labelled as such I believe so you have an idea of what you are going to get before you go into it. By the way Colin, if the female essy cart worker I saw very recently is working your area will you be exercising your freedom of speech on that subject directly to her, as going by your earlier post at 7:14am you don't seem to like the idea. No need for a reply, my question was tongue in cheek as I would hope your comment was.

^I know there is at least one woman doing the job now, I saw her fairly recently. My point was that I'm surprised that this forum was chosen to share this video on. I would have thought Facebook would have been more apt so I was wondering if there was another reason. Note to self, don't let curiosity get the better of you!

I'm personally not against opportunities in any sort of creativity or sports/fitness being on offer, (they already are) & being advertised fully. My reservations are about how accessible they really will be to all. If you are on a very limited budget (& that's not necessarily unemployed) then even the extra bus fares to get to a venue (if it's not in walking distance) can be beyond your means. Yes even in Shetland there are some living this lean. Also ofcourse bus timetables don't always fit in with lessons or events, some areas are affected in this way worse than others. You may think a person can always get a lift but as a non driver I can tell you this simply isn't a reliable option, for work or play.

I have to say I don't have a great deal of faith in some involved in this partnership to deliver anything better than what's on offer at present. My scepticism stems from the things that have already taken place in relatively recent times such as the cutting/limiting of school knitting & musical instrument lessons that I mentioned in a previous post & other issues like "messing" with the timetable for the bowlers at the Clickamin. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other examples that I'm not aware of. Everything has a budget ofcourse but trimming from the roots is not the way to go about it & does not make me feel that opinions on what is wanted will be listened to seriously.

I have to confess I wasn't sure of the spelling so went with the way you spelt it! The meaning I know is to be heavy handed (literally or theoretically,is that the word I'm looking for?!), clumsy or awkward. I think it is a 50+ sort of expression right enough.

^ I wish I had your way with words Ghostie because I couldn't agree more! Somewhat off the subject I am also pleased to see the use of the phrase "cacque handed". A phrase I was brought up with but whenever I've used it in more recent years no one seems to understand it.

Back to the subject. If we, local council, Scottish &/or Westminster government, whoever, cares so much about culture then why is it we had to cut back on school lessons that nurtured our local culture. I'm talking about knitting & musical instrument lessons, maybe there are other examples.It seems to me a false economy to take with one hand to (be seen) to give with the other.

^My brain hurts!

Where is "The String"?

Does anybody remember seeing or taking part in this survey in 2016? Was it mailed to us or was it online?

Yes I think that would certainly be the surest & quickest way to getting women accepted within UHA but I don't think it hurts to let it be known that people (whoever they are) are interested in that happening.

^ Networking is often the way in life but it is no use if there is a a "rule" written or unwritten against women taking part in UHA squads.

^ Maybe the answer is in the word "fought". If a boy wants to join the Rainbows/Brownies/Guides or similar then they may need to fight for the right, hopefully with the support of their family & others.

I totally agree with your first two paragraphs Wheelsup but I reckon any women interested in being in a squad have most likely been going to UHA, maybe for years already. I realise being a guest at one hall & performing at numerous halls through the night as a guizer or musician are different things but it is for the squad leaders to make it clear to all that falling by the wayside is not tolerated. Women do night shift jobs too so I'm sure they will cope! If they find being in a squad is not for them then they can give up their place to one of the many in the waiting list, no harm done.

Well as far as sexism/racism is concerned ofcourse it would have to be proven that was the reason for exclusion. Unfortunately proving that may not always be easy but the onus is on the accuser, normally in this country anyway.

Yes people have been known to make accusations of sexism/racism & many other things falsely & sometimes with another agenda in mind. That doesn't mean that all accusations are unwarranted.

I don't personally think that a quota is the way to go with any UHA but I think if the idea of having female squad members was officially accepted then they would filter in over time naturally in the same way that squads do change gradually from retirements etc. As the Jarl squad obviously changes every year this could be the ideal opportunity to start bringing women into the event. Lead from the top as it were.

Certainly there has only been one female Jarl so far but I don't know if this is because it is "not allowed" in any of the other festivals. Would be interesting to have confirmation or not from someone involved in any of them.

^Oh I did get your point Colin, my one is that the (Lerwick) UHA could take note of what is happening in the other festivals & learn from them possibly. They have shown that there really are no serious issues with being inclusive. Like most things, where there's a will, there's a way.

^ Many apologies to you Colin. It looks like I have tried to doctor your post when my intention was to remark section by section. Hope that makes sense?! I am very "technologically challenged" & don't know how to correct it!

So far, the poll seems to be running fairly evenly between "sexist" and "traditional". 

 

I struggled a little with this question as I think the origins of UHA were as likely designed around the way of life back then as opposed to deliberately excluding women. However whatever the original intentions were, life has moved on & I believe an increasing amount of women & men will view what has been the norm (for UHA) simply is not applicable for the future.

 

Not unexpected but, what are women to do to get invited into a squad ?

 

Let's face it.  If no squad is willing to have women join their ranks, then they (women) have not made any progress whatsoever, and UHA will remain "sexist".

 

For the men who would be happy enough of even welcome the inclusion of women to the squads it may well be difficult for them to speak up. It is never easy to be the first to break ranks in any situation. But it does happen in life.

 

 

 

Personally, I do not believe that UHA is "sexist", nor do I believe that it is entirely "traditional" either.  It's just more of a "boys night out"

 

There would seem to be an awful lot of women required/invited, as in the women attending the halls & the hostesses, to label it as more of a "boys night out".

 

After all, describing it as "sexist" is just another way of beating up on someone, or a group, that has a different opinion..  Just like describing it as "racist" because (as far as I am aware and, please correct me if I am wrong) there are no coloured members in any squad.

 

The words sexist & racist are legitimate words with meanings & not just empty, insulting slang. It may be an uncomfortable message but it needs to be addressed.

There may not be any other than white faces involved (I don't know) but if it ever came to be that someone were excluded on the basis of race that just wouldn't fly.

 

Will we ever see the day when  UHA has a coloured, female, lesbian (let's be "inclusive" here), beardless (?) Guizer Jarl(ess) ? 

Well the female & beardless bit has already happened at SMUHA as I'm sure we all know & the sky didn't fall down, the world didn't stop turning & all the masculinity of the men involved in the event didn't crumble, as far as I hear! I believe a good time was had by all as usual.

To make this truly fair , the women who wanted to enter a squad, should also try and get their squad into some other Up Helly Aa's such as Delting for SMUHA, who also seem to be at full capacity, then they could make a fairer judgement.

But since Delting & SMUHA already have women taking part in squads, what would it prove?