Stan

Butcher shop called 'Halal - Is It Meat You're Looking For?'

Just because the English Premier league threw out any chance of you joining their league doesn't mean you can just waltz into ours! That Peter Lawwell's got a brass neck hasn't he?

It's not Gary Glitter by any chance? I do recall him once saying: "Hello, Hello. It's good to be back, it's good to be back. Hello, Hello. It's good to be back, it's good to be back. Did you miss me, Yeah, while I was away, did you hang my picture on your wall I'm back, I'm back as a matter of fact, as a matter of fact I'm back" If its you Mr Gadd. . . Goodbye!

Is that you, Barry? I thought Birmingham City had snapped you up!

Me and my children can walk for miles but getting them to keep by your side and walk in the direction you wish them to go and for them to be aware of moving vehicles whilst you're carrying bags or pushing a trolley can be quite a task. Also difficult to keep hold of their hands at all times as they become a bit stubborn and crave independence usually after reaching the age of 2. They can slip your grasp like Houdini at his best! Not to have to walk into the road in these circumstances is a major boost.

I frequently witness 'blue badge' vehicles parking in the parent and child parking area when the disabled parking area has numerous free bays. I'm not sure whether this is due to the fact that I think there were originally disabled parking bays there in the days of Somerfield and beyond and folk have just got into a habit of parking there or it's just plain ignorance and giving no thought to the difficulties that parents have when having to get kids in and out of vehicles. Not easy to get your child strapped into a car safely when you're trying to avoid your car door smashing against the vehicle next to you or pushing a trolley and preventing your child from dashing across the road at the same time. I think in most cases misuse of the parent and child parking area is lack of thought or a "couldn't care less" attitude. Misuse is not restricted to 'blue badge' vehicles but offenders come from across the wide spectrum of folk who shop at Tesco and who do not have a child in their vehicle. It's frustrating when you see, in the parent and child parking bays, vans drivers hopping out of their vehicle or young folk departing from their souped-up sports vehicle with no children in the vehicle or by their side; persons with no children filling up their vehicle with booze; a vehicle drawing up with two adults (at a busy time of day) - one of which either saunters along to the cash machines or enters the shop. I think just a little bit more respect and thought is needed when choosing where to park and getting rid of the lazy attitude that some folk have. And don't get me started on folk parking for hours on end on the double yellows next to the zebra crossing!

The split? Piece of nonsense. Alternative? Revert to a top ten and play each other 4 times a season or increase to 18 clubs and play twice a season. Unfortunately neither of these alternatives are attractive. Playing each other 4 times a year is chronic and there ain't enough quality for an 18 team league resulting in alot of meaningless matches and obvious results before a ball is kicked. Perhaps merging of clubs would be a good idea to increase quality? Perhaps a merged Hearts/Hibs would give Rangers and C*lt*c a run for their money. Good old Wallace Mercer, he had some forward-looking ideas.

M in M me old chum, my 'despise' comments were my opinion in the same way as your sweeping comments were. If you can't take it don't dish it out. From what I understand, Setanta's first choice for their Saturday viewing was Rangers v the other lot. As there is some kind of rugby final on the Sunday at Murrayfield the police were against the Edinburgh derby for that day. Perhaps some contractual agreement meant that Setanta were obliged to cover the game and asked it to be shoved to the Thursday night thereby fulfilling their agreement and not giving a monkeys about the teams or the fans at the same time. Just a guess though - probably totally wrong and I'm sure you'll tell me! Anyway, if Hearts qualify for the UEFA cup or Europa cup or whatever they're going to call it that will be some more games that Hearts will play on a Thursday night - although probably not too many!

Agree with you, M in M, about a lot of the lesser clubs not looking at the bigger picture and the points you made regarding other costs are valid. However, can't say I agree with your sweeping description of the supporters of the two clubs you despise. Probably the SP hell folk would not have Rangers and Cellik play on a Thursday night as it would be earmarked by the TV folk and that that is where a lot of the power lies. Truth is, TV companies don't care much about the Edinburgh derby and therein lies a problem with regard to income if the 'big two' were to leave the current set-up. Point of interest, Old firm league matches have been played in the past in midweek when under the control of the Scottish League.

Surely Hearts have no fear in going to Ibrox? Are the Hearts fans expecting to lose? 2-2 I believe was the last result there between the teams. As for having to play Hibs on a Thursday, I agree that it is total rubbish and the organisers need their heads examined. The split as whole is just plain stupid. Increase the league to 18 teams and play each other twice just like the good old days. Oh no, hold on, can't have clubs halving their income from the fans of two clubs that they despise can we?

According to some, Rangers, as a club, are solely to blame for this. I'm willing to indulge those with this thinking for a moment or two for the sake of an interesting debate as this thread is degrading once again to opportunists looking to point-score. If Rangers were solely at fault for the small minority who caused the mayhem, how should Rangers take steps to stop this from ever happening again? Please, put forward serious solutions and don't let petty anti-Rangers views get in the way.

For crying out loud, at what point was I deflecting attention? Re-read my posts, please. You asked me a question and I answered it in the short space of time that I could be bothered to. I honestly have no inclination to list in detail the misdemeanors of other clubs' fans - this is not about point scoring. Yes, there is a problem but because of the high profile of the Rangers, numerous significantly important matches and our large fanbase, any trouble is more visible and more of a news item. Even then, Manchester was not the norm. Since you brought up the subject, until the final, 18 matches in Europe, no trouble of note and not one arrest, with the last praise coming from the authorities in Florence. I thought I might get a reasoned opinion and discussion from some folk, even a friendly nod to say "I can see your point of view". I consider myself to be an average Rangers fan - never involved in any trouble and up for a bit of banter with fans of any club. Willing to discuss football in general and enjoy a damn good discussion with varying points of view with those that are keen to open their minds to such varying opinions. And yet, I'm "a creature best avoided". Says it all really. Difficult to have a proper discussion with someone with such blinkered vision and is anti-Rangers with a passion to the last. However, I live in hope, MinM, that perhaps someday I can convince you that the average Rangers fan is the same as the average Hearts fan or the average Burnley fan or the average Feyenoord fan or the average Bayern Munich fan . . . All the best to you.

Perhaps not to the same extent as some clubs due to the lower profile of Hearts but then Hearts don't usually have more than two matches in Europe every 5 or 6 years and the travelling support dwindles greatly domestically when they're not competing for 2nd or 3rd place in the league! However, and I don't want to get in to a "your fans are worser than our fans" but maybe these couple of snippets of news items from the last couple of years could suffice just now: 2007 - "A Hearts football fan has become one of the first in Scotland to be banned from all of Britain's football grounds. Dean Gollan, from Edinburgh, has been barred for three months from entering any UK stadium where a regulated match is taking place, a court has ruled. Gollan, 33, was given the football banning order for a breach of the peace during a match between Aberdeen and Hearts at the Pittodrie ground." 2008 - From the website 'Vital Heart of Midlothian website ("For the fans, by the fans") - Talking about a match at Parkhead: "As usual it would seem, there was some trouble in and around the section of the stadium allocated to visiting supporters, with nine people being ejected from the ground and three being arrested."; "It sounds like the usual case of nastiness occurring on both sides of the fence, with the only people being appropriately dealt with happening to be on the visiting side."; "Part of the problem, a big part in fact, is the considerable percentage of absolute knuckle-scrapers that sit in the Hearts section at this fixture. I'm not sure if these guys go regularly to Hearts games or not (I'm inclined to think that they don't and only turn out for games where there might be trouble but that's just a hunch), but they frankly make you embarrassed to be a Hearts fan with some of the behaviour they come out with, whether it be sick or sectarian songs or just the way that they handle themselves in general." That last bit is quite interesting. I'm not trying to point score here because you could quite easily replace the word "Hearts" with any other major Scottish club. Kind of makes my point, this is a problem in Scottish society and not just the fault of one football club and it becomes even worse when booze is involved.

In case I have been misunderstood, for my part I am not trying to deflect anything away from those who called themselves Rangers fans and were involved in the unsavoury, disgusting and sickening incidents that happened. What I will say is that I have no doubt that Rangers as a club will ensure that those that can be positively identified will be banned from entering the grounds of any game that Rangers are at - as they have done in the past. And therein, unfortunately, lies the problem. It can be difficult for a club to identify these cretins without the help of others. It can sometimes be difficult to apprehend the culprits inside grounds even with CCTV cameras never mind outside grounds as other clubs can testify to - we still await the collaring of the 'lighter thrower' which hit Fernando Ricksen from a couple of years ago and the missile throwers that hit the Rangers club doctor at Parkhead recently. Additionally, many of these lowlife that turned up in Manchester will have never stepped inside Ibrox or any other football ground in their life but are keen in causing aggro when an opportunity arises. I think we all know the type - ask them to name anyone in the Rangers team from Barcelona in 1972 and they haven't a scooby. The Manchester thugs are not welcome on this earth, never mind Ibrox. In my opinion, to say that this is purely a Rangers problem is like saying that Rangers are the cause of disorder in today's society. None of the big clubs in Scotland have been squeaky clean in the last few years, (and I actually include Hearts as a bigger club!), unfortunately for Rangers and their decent fans this was a high-profile occasion with an unprecedented amount of people boozed up and compressed into one area. For those with an opposite opinion, I respect your right to give it. I know it can be difficult to take a step back and see it from the other side, especially if the other side is Rangers! I understand that, sometimes my views have a slight blue tinge to them - only natural as I love the Rangers. Even this number of days after I feel my stomach churning when I recall the scenes I've seen on video. I wish that one of the police vans had just ploughed into the mob rather than stopping.

There is no excuse for what these morons did in Manchester. I can't believe that any of these ****ing idiots are true Rangers fans and I plead with all sane minded people not to tar all Rangers fans with the same brush. I have it on good authority that there were guys there wearing Motherwell and Hibs strips and heard that fans of another Scottish club travelled down just to "soak up the atmosphere". I have heard that many folk travelled from all areas of the UK with no interest in the football but merely to 'join the party'. My point is, God knows what kind of people could have turned up that had no interest in either of the teams that were playing. Unless the background to the picture is known, I think that the picture that M in M posted, for a cheap laugh, of the Rangers fan being attacked by the dog should be removed. If you want to post any pictures, preferably to make a point, I would rather it was of the policeman being attacked because, unfortunately and disgustingly, it was damned obvious what was happening in that incident. I'm bloody furious and sickened about the whole damn thing.