Patzel

another question:

after having watched the shipping forecast for a while now I have not booked on the North boat yet.

Is it usually possible for foot passengers just to show up in time for a sailing and buy the ticket (no cabin) before departure? Or is it inevitable to book in advance?

If the wheather is the same next week I would prefer to be able to change my mind short term and perhaps take the plane from Aberdeen.

As you seem to have a motor I was merely pointing out the costs of motoring in Shetland. ( approx £1.30 per litre ) plus ferries. Yep, stick to the e-mails and leave the car at home....

I was only joking...

1.30 per litre?

we pay about 1.15 (already converted into pounds)and even this is unusually high

I still prefer the four-legged 1hp

Also consider the approx 100 mile round trip costs to Lerwick inc ferry fares costing approx £8 return.

So it might be faster (and cheaper) to visit someone in Lerwick instead of sending an email is that what you mean?

also a little bit OT

living in a listed building (very old farm) in Germany there is no need to buy pet mice... if you just feed the ones who live in the house (whether you like it or not) they will be pet mice after a while...

if someone can make the pics a bit smaller, please feel free to do so!

this young fellow likes yoghurt sauce...

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7357/031jy.jpg

uhps, there's another one

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8739/032qyd.jpg

Yes, I did.

£10.71 to Aberdeen plus taxes and £10.71 on the way back!

Lucky you... I have seen prices starting from 70.00 (on my travel dates) on the booking page...

so 28.80 for the ferry was still cheaper

did anybody try to book one of those discount flights?

Well I did, but... you get to the end of the booking process without any discount shown Who wants to press the last button? I don't want to end up with a regular fare...

With 25% off I might take the plane instead of the North boat but no "blind" booking...

so it does seem I might have picked the right spot for what I am planning...

I would need some wind for small scale wind energy (only for domestic use) but I would not need easterly or southeasterly winds blowing too much salty water on seedlings of trees.

tomorrow in two weeks I will know

some more questions about the ferry:

I don't really want to spend money on a cabin but after having seen the shipping forecasts for a while I am not sure whether it might eventually after all be better to book a cabin...

As long as I have the chance to lie down I am not bothered if the sea is rough but I doubt that a reclining chair will then do.

But some members of the forum mentioned that one could also end up being in a cabin with alcohol steaming companions...

When we've been on the boat to Stornoway there was always plenty space in the lounges (quite comfortable)... tourists usually stayed outside for filming until open water was reached and then they were slightly shocked to find out that locals had foreseen the up and down and accommodated themselves in time on all seats available.

What's best on the North boat? Any advice?

Does staff mind if one just pickes a place in a quiet corner?

thanks for the short answer - that was the one I was hoping for!

is it true that the prevailing wind direction on Shetland is SW?

I am not asking for fun, it might be important for plans about what could be planted where and to decide whether a property (and/or the surrounding land) offers enough shelter for certain plants and/or how often the land or parts of it are likely to be sprayed by the sea.

I only believe in the Lord of the Farts...

our huge black Noriker horse (nomen est omen for the ones capable of Latin )

that is indeed interesting!

And it underlines my personal experiences.

When we lived in Stornoway (that was after 1983) luckily not all the farmers knew this (or perhaps didn't care), so one could still buy it.

It was actually in Scotland when I discovered the taste and the advantages of raw milk. After returning back to Germany I kept on drinking raw milk.

I used to have in fact problems with neurodermitis and allergies before, but that disappeared completely many years ago. Could well be that one of the reasons is the milk...

Pasteurised milk is allright to put in a cup of coffee but for drinking

being an atheist myself I have never been happy with the situation that almost all primary schools in Bavaria (a catholic region) are sort of indoctrinating the children. There is a prayer in the morning, a service being held before the holiday breaks (and we do have many) and they have to attend unless parents fight this vehemently.

Religion is a subject at school (classes are divided in catholics and evangelic) and if a child says he doesn't believe in any god and doesn't want to attend religious classes he is asking for trouble.

In my opinion religion is (for those who want to practise it) a very personal thing and has nothing to do with the education schools have to offer apart from giving the children unbiased information about the background, the evolution of the different religions, the impact they have on cultures, the risks involved with them, how they can be abused for governing etc.

In secondary schools (nowadays even sometimes in primary schools) there is the opportunity to opt out of the subject religion and so-called ethics classes can be visited instead.

They do learn about religions there but main focus is to gain social skills, taking on responsibility, tolerance etc.

My personal opinion is that this is far more important than to be patronized.

And: are 2 or 3 hours of time a week in school not better spent with learning languages? Especially nowadays in European context one should expect that everybody speaks at least one other language more or less fluently. In the Netherlands and Sweden it seems to be possible but I don't know many German or British people who do speak a second or third language.

My parents (both not atheists) fought for me when I was fed up with religion at a very young age and refused to take part in the morning prayers and I didn't have to attend anymore. So I had the chance to be guest attendant in some other class (sometimes maths, sometimes French or English) during the time and definitely got some benefit out of this.

If atheist schools had existed when I was young I would have very much appreciated this...

it's used both ways in Germany

but you are right it might be unusual in your language the way I used it

Probably a remainder of old school English

"hier bei uns" (word-for-word translated but not proper English "here at us") is usually translated "up here" and never "down here".

As long as you can understand (somehow...) the dumb Kraut who's actually really quite close to the Alps and about 700m above sea-level

conspiracy

no risk no fun

but it seems you do have more problems in UK with the bovine tuberculosis than Germany has. They don't even do any testing up here anymore.

It is quite easy to buy unpasturised milk here in Preston, Lancashire, England, UK.

I am sorry, shetlandpeat, but I have asked specifically about the possibilities in Shetland and not Preston.

Yes, and after consuming about 1 litre raw milk daily since 2002 I think I should know about the risks... and I can assure you I am neither elderly nor pregnant...

it might come as a shock to you but over the last centuries people in Bavaria have (and many including me still do it) left raw milk in a flat bowl covered with a plate at room temperature for 2 - 3 days to make "Stöckelmilch" (I believe it's called sour milk in English)... there is nothing more refreshing than this on a hot day.

@Frances144

Don't worry I didn't expect anybody to admit that he sells raw milk if he's not supposed to. Just a simple "yes, there are possibilities" would do me fine...

also I am literally spoken sitting on a dungheap just now... our village is getting a main sewer system, there is no road today, just a path between huge diggers... so no way to get the horses to the pasture... no way to reach our dungheap which is on my neighbour's property (we share the dungheap like other people share cars )

hopefully tomorrow morning there is no way out of the village with the car so I might not have to go to work

more back to topic:

is it possible to buy raw milk at the farmers markets or privately of farmers? After many years of drinking raw milk (as it comes from the cow) I wouldn't want to miss this.

My own cow is still producing milk (yes I know that her son is over two years now but there is no sign that he will give up the habit of drinking a sip of milk now and again ) but to be honest the milk of a mainly hay fed working cow tastes rather insipid so I fetch a bottle of milk every evening from my neighbours dairy cows.

It is not exactly legal for him to sell milk off the yard due to health and safety regulations but for getting permission he would have to alter many things and it costs a lot.

But still it's ok for both of us. He gets paid what I would pay in a shop and I get first class fresh milk (also fat enough for making butter) and do not pay for lorry transport and plastic packaging.

Any chance for raw milk in Shetland or do farmers rather not sell off the yard?

may I suggest that to fill in the location could be a must for everyone?

Some German forums do have this rule and I think it's a good one... at least locations like "at home" or "in the desert" or "on top of the dungheap" can be avoided this way.

Back to the topic: I won't be in Shetland on October 3rd, but a week later... if there's also a market somewhere I would like to go there.

Does anybody know?

Industrialy produced food in oil has additives to make them safe for storage even at room temp.

don't be so sure about that...

www.promedmail.org/pls/apex/f?p=2400:1001:1806239307950653::NO::F2400_P1001_BACK_PAGE,F2400_P1001_PUB_MAIL_ID:1400,83890

Why would you even consider moving large animals at sea at this time of year unless they are going south for slaughter. and why slaughter south at all would it not be more sense and better for Shetland if we killed all these animals here and added the value to their carcass paying wages localy

My animals wouldn't be travelling before next summer, I have never considered this time of the year for a journey for them.

About others: generally spoken I could never see the point of transporting live animals to abbatoirs far away regardless whether a ferry is used or only lorries. Why transport live animals (and it can never be a pleasant journey) thousands of km across Europe (and even further)? Of course it would be far better to transport just frozen meat.

But the bloody EU still pays premiums...

"paying wages locally"

yes, definitely, this would be best and with proper marketing and perhaps a label "Shetland produce" there would be opportunities...

Fair Isle Jumpers are wellknown worldwide... like the Harris Tweed is (yes I know that's Western isles)... so why not agricultural produce?

Further investigation of storing garlic in oil shows it can be dangerous due to Clostridium botulinum bacteria multiplying rapidly in the oxygen free mix if it is above 50F or 10C for ANY length of time. If you want to store garlic in oil it must be kept in the freezer!

Not only garlic, this applies to other vegetables as well! Even more because Clostridium Botulinus is a bacteria and Garlic has an antibiotic effect and therefore slows down the multiplying action a bit compared to other veg without the antibiotic effect.

It's only safe if pickled veg is thoroughly cooked before serving, not only heated.

Do local markets exist in Shetland, where farmers and also hobby farmers sell their local produce directly?

In many villages in Bavaria there is (mostly during the summer, some all year round) a weekly farmers market, where one can buy a large variety of fresh local produce such as eggs, meat, vegetables, butter, cheese, bread etc. in a better qualitiy compared with shops and supermarkets.

Some farmers also offer regular delivery which means you subscribe one and then get weekly (or monthly) a selection of regionally produced food delivered to your doorstep.

I think this is a good idea because it opens local trade opportunities to producers and people get food of high quality (also environmental friendly because no long transports are necessary).

Anything like this in Shetland?

And how about LETS (Local Exchange Trading Systems)?

I am a member in our local LETS and it's really working perfectly. So I got all my firewood cut within this system, got someone for window cleaning, someone to help collect the horses poo off the pastures... I did some English tutoring for others, gave riding lessons, helped transporting household goods with my trailer...

it's such a fine opportunity to exchange work, goods etc. without needing any money. Many people who are on income support are members and for them especially it's very practicable.

Any LETS in Shetland?

I did see them loading sheep as we were boarding, it must have been terrible for them.

How come they transport animals in a sea state like this? Is this legal at all? Animal welfare act etc.?

For some weeks now I have this website www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/marine/shipping_forecast.html#All~FairIsle

as frontpage for the internet... just keeping informed because I will be travelling soon. So I have seen how rough it acually was. Perhaps I should get myself a bunk and not only a reclining chair...

And I was thinking about animal transports too... if we move mine will also have to be transported with Northlink... but I think I would rather look for temporary accommodation for them near Aberdeen and wait for calmer days instead of travelling with them in rough seas.

After outbreaks of whatever diseases in other places and countries I can understand why animals are tested after arrival.

And because Shetland is so remote I think it's a unique chance to remain disease free, if tests are done properly.

If we move up with our livestock (horses, working cow + ox and goats) I don't mind having them tested and I would expect the same of others.

There is only one situation I can imagine where papers should do: this is, if quarantine can be done at home, also all tests carried out there and livestock is transported excluding any risk of exposure to diseases. If all this can be officially proved further testing on the pier should not be necessary.

"Bottom line as I saw it, if you imported an animal, unless you stood on the pierhead and expressly forbid it to be touched, it was going to be grabbed and done god knows what with by god knows who."

I would want to see anybody who grabs my cow... if I am not with her, no vet would ever come close enough to her to get a blood sample without risking his life... if I am with her she's as gentle as you can imagine...

so I would always know who did what to her

apart from all the technical problems: how much do you in fact pay for the services (telephone and broadband)?

I am just trying to figure out how much costs of living would change once we decide to relocate to Fetlar. Another surprise like the increase of my car tax (114 € in Germany to 425 in Britain)? Hopefully not...

At the moment I pay for unlimited broadband (it's an old contract at only 2,000 speed but could be upgraded without extra costs) and unlimited national landline calls plus unlimited landline calls to Denmark, France, UK, Italy, Netherlands, Austria and Spain € 27.14 per month (that's about 22 pounds). Line hire is included.

Calling a mobile number costs extra but I'm not a friend of mobile phones anyway.

It seems a similar package costs a lot more in UK?

Shopped around a bit in the web but found nothing competitive.