Spinner72

Oh man no half! Played his Guitar Man LP ta death as a teenager.

To be clear, I'm very aware of the financial boost the oil industry was and still is to Shetland, I just can't recall the kind of moaning about "all the money going to the oil companies" that we see with Viking Energy being said about Sullom Voe at any time in the last 50 years! The amount of damage oil and gas have done and still do environmentally is astronomical compared to the windfarm construction, yet that's where people seem to focus. It's quite bizarre. I think there is a hefty disconnect where people have forgotten how Shetland would be if not for the Oil industry. We are very used to all the benefits it has afforded us, and if that is to continue, it is vital we have other forms of energy to move on to, of which wind energy is the current option. I have no doubt just like we were consulted about the windfarm at school all those years ago, kids today will be being consulted on possibilities for the next big thing 40 years from now.

Absolutely. The financial benefits to Shetland as a whole are impossible to deny, huge input to the local economy, improvements to infrastructure, boosts to tourism, and of course the benefits directly from the various community funds and donations. It is of course true that some managed to take a huge dent out of what could have been, but that is placed squarely at the foot of local groups. I have spent my entire adult life unable to see stars in the southern hemisphere because of the flare stacks, think of all the hours we spent gathering up oiled birds, not being able to go on beaches because of tar balls etc etc.. Never once can I recall anyone pleepsin about compensation. Truth is, this "issue" if you want it to be one, is very little to do with the windfarm, and everything to do with social media.

I genuinely beam fae lug ta lug as I go by dem. No secret on here I am been a huge fan o da project fae da earliest whisperings back in da 80's, so it's lik a dream come true. I think dir splended, but also delighted ta see da landscaping wark dats gone on too. Ta think o aa da ranting fok is hed aboot yun but dir wisna a pleep aboot da monstrosity o a gas plant dat wis biggit just a peerie while ago (let alon da rest o Sullum Voe afore it) just beggars belief ta me.

On annider forum I frequent, they ir discussing what should or shouldn't be in a traditional Scottish Breakfast. What maks up a traditional Shetland Breakfast? Sassermaet, Eeg and Tottie Bannock have ta be dere I tink.

It's going to be interesting, thats for sure. As a lifetime pro-independence supporter, of course the idea is exciting but I am concerned about the timing. Mostly however, I hope we see no mention of the EU in the run up to any potential referendum. It has been relegated to "something we don't talk about" but the fact that up to 20% of the Yes vote last time was about getting Scotland out of the EU, it could be a big setback if EU membership is proposed.

Thats enevitable, but still a good message when you think about it. This is possibly the best time in recent times for this to happen, as the couple of years gap will inevitably mean there are a few spaces to be filled. The main thing though, is that the Jarl will be able to invite anyone close to them to enjoy thier big day. Must have been hard for many a jarl and thier daughter(s)/sister(s)/wife(s)/mam.

This is precisely what many have tried to say but it gets totally misunderstood in the name of "being popular" by objecting to it. The irony is that those who do object, are actually in reality promoting buying oil and gas (with all the associated environmental risks and costs involved) from places such as Russia.

Exactly. That's why I believe it is a fact very little will change. Becoming a part of a squad in Lerwick is a long process, if the committee announce/clarify that it is OK for females to join squads, it could be years before anyone is actually involved, just the same as it is now for men. Also, as you rightly say, it will be up to each individual squad (just like in all other Up Helly Aas) and so the current negativity and pressure on the Committee would vanish. As mentioned above however, it may be that joining a squad means you join the Guizers Association (something no other UHA has to my knowledge) and it has a no male policy. Hopefully EM will clarify.

Yes that's true, there were three in my squad when I was Jarl, and a great many more at other times. With females in the other squads often outnumbering males from primary school upwards. But the Lerwick UHA is a very different beast regarding numbers, for very good reason. Equality here would simply mean being able to join the same very long process boys do to one day possibly be in the Jarl squad. Also, the tradition of the halls means, I am confident, the majority want to carry on playing the part in the festival that they already do. Ah, I had missed that. I hadn't noticed the distinction between the Guizers Association and the Committee. So by joining any squad you become a member of the Guizers Association?

I do believe it is a fact. Do you really suggest that if one fiddlebox carrier (this being the traditional way to join a squad) was a lass, anyone watching the procession would notice? My opinion is that it is highly unlikely many, if any, females would actually join a squad anyway. Again, we are now on page 93 of this thread and nobody has actually stated females are not allowed in squads, so why on earth don't the committee just say that? I agree with Ghostrider that there would still be those complaining but the difference is that it will no longer be an issue for the committee.

I am not on a wind up, far from it. It is such an incredibly simple question, as it stands, is there any reason a female can't join a squad? The "wording" or whatever is totally irrelevant, it is a clear and simple yes and no question. So far nobody from the committee has stated yes or no, and it is just assumed there is a rule against it yet nobody as yet has been able to say there is. That is all they have to do and the matter is indeed put to rest, as it could have been a long time ago. The fact is, despite some bizarre ideas to the contrary, if lasses had the option to join as fiddle box carriers right now, the bad publicity would vanish, and it would be barely noticed. Not so much looking to the future, but recognising the present - what happens of a member of a squad, Jarl Squad or indeed the Jarl, undergoes gender reassignment in the lead up to thier year?

Unless there is any other relevant wording, it seems pretty clear that what actually needs to happen is for a squad to invite a female into the fold. Then it is up to the committee to either accept that this is in "the spirit of Up Helly Aa", or otherwise. Again, the thing I can't understand is why the silence. It really isn't hard to put it to rest, either say there is nothing stopping female squad members and it has just been traditional that squads are male, or say actually there is a male only rule and that's that. With the exception of SMUHA due to it's recent formation, I think it is accurate that initially all Up Helly Aa's had male only Jarl Squads initially, and, similar to stag do's etc, over time it has just become normal for females to join in. It certainly isn't some form of revolution.

I'm a bit lost here. How would a Jarls wife/sister etc be any different to any other member of the Jarl Squad? As someone who has taken part in my fair share of Jarl Squads, they are just a group of friends and family invited by the Jarl to join them for the event. I can't see how any law could apply to who is or isn't asked. The line quoted previously - "it is the duty of each Guizer to conduct himself at all times in accordance with the “Spirit of Up-Helly-Aa” with goodwill and strict adherence to accepted customs." If that is the nearest to a mention gender gets, the committee can make this whole mess go away by simply clarifying/stating that there is nothing to prevent a female being asked in a squad so long as they follow the above. "Himself" when describing a person has long lost it's gender meaning in legal documents and it is readily accepted that "himself" may be a woman in the role.

Thanks for replying. I'm not looking for a "deep dive" into anything, it's really just a simple yes/no question. Is there a statement in the current constitution (or whatever guidance document applies) that says squad members can only be male?

I have tried looking back but this is such a long thread I will ask this again. Is there actually anything in the constitution of Lerwick UHA that says guizers must be male? From my conversations with some involved, this is not the case, it is just tradition. If that is true, I just can't understand why the committee don't just say so and the whole issue disappears just like that. If there is, then it is a simple and sensible thing to do to change it, then even if the squads themselves continue to be male only, there is no longer an issue. The lack of any statement either way is baffling and in that sense the committee are the ones keeping this going.

It's a recurring theme these days to see lots of concerns and objections in letters section of the paper and on facebook etc, but nobody actually cares enough to put in an objection to the planning proposal, which obviously means projects go ahead with no objections. In the case of the two Coop stores, there was only one single comment, regarding the paths at Scalloway, which was noted and taken on board.

A more lightsome story that doesn't seem to have been picked up here : https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/victorian-market-work-turns-up-an-empty-quarter-bottle-of-vo-260859/

It has, in my opinion, come to an interesting stage now. The surge in "like based" social media has, in my opinion, fixed a lot of the issues (bear with me!). It is now FAR easier to spot those who haven't actually given anything any thought : They will literally repost something someone else has written, which got to the top of thier feed because it was liked by similar minded people, which will cause thier post to be liked by the same people, thus they spiral off into a delusion that the majority of people think the same as them and it is therefore fact and everything else is wrong. They will write something themself, often vague, then start adding links which are actually google search results they may not even have read. I find combining these makes it dead easy to filter out a large amount of drivel. You can also happily ignore facebook etc, as thats just stoness from top to bottom. The most unfortunate thing is the way some local news media seem to have decided to behave like facebook ranters, especially recently. But ignore that and stick to forums like Shetlink and you can still have meaninful debates with relatively sane people There are lots of good, sound, resources out there. Nothing fancy, but take for example things like planning applications. They are all there, with all related documents, for all to see. There are still facts out there. And as long as we stick to them, our differing opinions are all valid.

I think it might surprise a lot of folk just how many people are in (a). One of the big problems is zero hours contracts, as they pretty much eliminate people from being abe to claim the "Top up" benefits, as there isn't a fixed weekly/monthly wage. Might be £400 this week, but only £100 next week. In that sense, a carefully structured UBI would certainly be a better system, so long as it still offers an incentive to work.

If du reads da planning info, du will see yun wis a selective oot o context quote, and dat tourism and launch viewpoints (including disabled access to Lamba Ness) are an integral part of the project. Dunna believe anything on social media, check aathing yoursell den dir no mysteries

Yuns da reference number for the official planning application, you can fin it here : https://pa.shetland.gov.uk/online-applications/ Decided to delete my follow up rant about how many folk these days bang on about "the man" doing everything behind closed doors when they've never been more open or easy to look through

I find it hard to see how something published for all to see in the planning application, as you have made clear in your post, is in any way hidden from the public.

I don't know where du got dat info fae but, whilst Shetland used ta hae a higher dan average wage in many cases, this is pretty rare these days. I winna go inta details as its a peerie place etc, but I keen first hand o both unskilled labour wark an HGV/Plant driving where companies on the mainland are offerin £2 or more per hour above the rates here. It's not a trivial amount. The boost fae the upsurge in construction here has really helped but it needs it aa yet. Even council wise, if you compare wi Orkney, let alone da mainland, similar posts salaries are considerably lower in Shetland. Ghostrider is right aboot some sectors dats fur sure, but its a difficult financial flow ta get up tae. Hospitality needs ta pay more, so charge more, but fok hae less ta spend and are less enthusiatic aboot travellin, so dir less comin in an so it goes. The level of minimum wage compared to rent and rates is proably the biggest issue however. Many folk simply can't afford to work, because they won't break even.

Parcelforce is Royal Mail. Hendersons deliver for a few courier companies, no extra charges.