Jump to content

  • Log in with Twitter Log In with LinkedIn Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

With your Shetlink login details, all classifieds, private messages, and invoices are now accessed through the new Njord | Market system. Please see Njord | Market FAQ for more details.

Photo

Japan trade deal


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#1 Claadehol

Claadehol

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 354 posts

Posted 11 September 2020 - 08:13 PM

Nice headline on Shetnews.

 

"Shetland lamb and wool exports will probably benefit from new Japan trade deal once out of the EU."

 

The farming industry was understandably concerned about this issue, but this deal would be Scotland wide.

 

Couple this with huge benefits to Shetland's fishing industry, and perhaps some remoaners might think again.

 

Just think, Burra fishermen might again be able to tow their nets in fishing grounds that their forefathers fished. With the present system they are forced from their historic fishing grounds by Spanish and French boats using hundreds of miles of gill nets and long lines.

 

I wonder what the bycatch is with the gill nets?

 

Let us remember that 93% of UK fishermen voted to get out of the EU, and for very good reason. Remember also that this wasn't just Scottish boats, this was 93% of the whole of the UK. This represented the cost of joining the EU and the fact that it had destroyed fishing communities nationwide for the benefit of foreign vessels, some of whom had already destroyed their own fishing grounds. 

 

UK vessels were decommissioned and burnt wholesale, while Spain received millions from the EU to exploit UK waters.

 

This was the deal organised by Ted Heath and the Tory party with the connivance of Harold Wilson and the labour party. If the Tories took us into this disastrous fisheries deal, then surely they should feel duty bound to take us out of it.

 

I keep hearing that the fishing industry represents only a small part of the UK economy, so offering it up for sacrifice is no big deal.

 

Why then, is it such a major sticking point in any EU deal? Why is it considered of such major importance to the big players in Europe. After all, they certainly don't seem to think it is of minor importance.

 

Why's that??

 



#2 NullVoid

NullVoid

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 348 posts

Posted 11 September 2020 - 09:51 PM


I keep hearing that the fishing industry represents only a small part of the UK economy, so offering it up for sacrifice is no big deal.

 

Why then, is it such a major sticking point in any EU deal? Why is it considered of such major importance to the big players in Europe. After all, they certainly don't seem to think it is of minor importance.

 

Why's that??

 

Enormous electoral support in Former Fishing towns.

 

 


UK vessels were decommissioned and burnt wholesale, while Spain received millions from the EU to exploit UK waters.

 

And Many of the communities that have suffered De-industrialization want to see an expansion in that sector and such an expansion would be an indicator of "Taking Back Control" and giving British Jobs to British Workers.

 

If you dont know why people dont just move to where the jobs are simply crunch the numbers for average income and savings for the demographics/age groups that aren't too settled to move

 

 

According to the report, 32% of the UK’s workers have less than £500 in savings and 41% have less than £1,000. Almost 30% are concerned about their level of debt while 43% of workers do not have anyone in their household they could depend on to support them financially in the event of hardship. Fewer than half of employees (44%) feel they have progressed in their careers over the last five years; only 40% feel they have good opportunities to progress in future.

https://www.theguard...omic-insecurity



#3 George.

George.

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1681 posts

Posted 11 September 2020 - 10:49 PM

And Many of the communities that have suffered De-industrialization want to see an expansion in that sector and such an expansion would be an indicator of "Taking Back Control" and giving British Jobs to British Workers.

 

Who cares about the British? Personally, I'd rather we looked after ourselves.


Edited by George., 11 September 2020 - 10:50 PM.


#4 NullVoid

NullVoid

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 348 posts

Posted 11 September 2020 - 11:21 PM

Suppose we will just wait and see if the Self-determination/Autonomy Motion goes anywhere,

 

The matter is only entering the public discourse due to Indyref 2: Electric Boogaloo so Strike while the iron is hot,

Or else it will Just fizzle out until the third Scottish Independence referendum.

 

Japan will be trading with Britain whenever an exchange is made between Japan and Shetland thus we care about British and EU law and withdrawal from the latter.

 

In BrexitLand You have a Large section of the UK population who would be not only be Unopposed to actions/funding to help Shetlands fishing industry but also would view this as delivery of an election promise!

That seems like a worthwhile bargaining chip Hence: The enormous electoral support in Former Fishing towns.

 

Since being registered to vote here i would get a ballot on Shetland independence and Id probably vote "yes" to the Shetland independence since i don't have any reason to oppose it.

I just haven't seen proof this will go to fruition,

So Strike while the iron is hot!



#5 Ghostrider

Ghostrider

    1crankymofo

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9496 posts

Posted 11 September 2020 - 11:32 PM

I keep hearing that the fishing industry represents only a small part of the UK economy, so offering it up for sacrifice is no big deal.

 

Why then, is it such a major sticking point in any EU deal? Why is it considered of such major importance to the big players in Europe. After all, they certainly don't seem to think it is of minor importance.

 

Why's that??

The value of anything is not what its worth to the current possessor, but what somebody else is willing to give them for it.

 

As a matter of principle we shouldn't negotiate away anything to do with our fishing rights, but seeing just how high the rest of the EU will go to try and secure a deal to some of those rights is a very handy rule of thumb we can use in the future when setting prices for licences to allow them controlled and limited access (if that's something we wanted to do - it would be handy income short term while the UK fleet rebuilds itself), or setting prices for any fish we might want to export to them.

 

As lets face it, the rest of the EU have only limited choices once the UK territorial waters are removed from the total EU 'pool' - A radical reduction in seafood consumption by the entire EU population and a large part of its current fishing fleet paid to turn itself in to razor blades, or they purchase licences from us, or import a far greater tonnage of their seafood consumption than previously.

 

All of the above are economic and political negatives for the EU, so its no wonder they're keen to avoid them,, besides having gotten something for free and in plenty for almost 50 years that they probably shouldn't have gotten, its no wonder they're fighting tooth and nail for it when the only future they're looking at involves losing it or paying dearly for it.


Edited by Ghostrider, 11 September 2020 - 11:40 PM.


#6 Colin

Colin

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2449 posts

Posted 12 September 2020 - 05:24 AM

This 'Japan Trade Deal' is really nothing 'new' for Shetland.

Those with longer memories might remember the time when Shetland Knitwear was a firm favourite with Japanese customers, and just about every knitwear company on the Island had strong trading links with Japan.



#7 Ghostrider

Ghostrider

    1crankymofo

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9496 posts

Posted 12 September 2020 - 05:53 PM

^ Ah, yes, back in the bad old days before we have much cultural enrichment of the blessed great EU. Back when we had nearly as many knitwear factories dotted around the isle as we had fish factories.....

 

I'm not saying the EU single-handedly killed off much of the knitwear export market, the rise in the use of artificial fibres in the clothing industry and sweat shop knock offs did much of that, but its difficult to conceive the decline could have been any worse if we'd still been devoid of continental enrichment either.



#8 George.

George.

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1681 posts

Posted 12 September 2020 - 07:42 PM

UK vessels were decommissioned and burnt wholesale, while Spain received millions from the EU to exploit UK waters.

 

I wonder what pecentage of the U.K vessels are Scottish, what percentage are Shetlandic or if they don't now the difference?



#9 Colin

Colin

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2449 posts

Posted 12 September 2020 - 07:51 PM

It was cheap, and imho, poor quality knitwear from East Europe and china that did the most damage. 

It took a long time for the locals to wake up to the idea of trying to protect the 'Shetland' brand, and by the time they did, it was way to late.

A quick check (and some simple arithmatic) will reveal far more 'Shetland Kniitwear' available than is capable of being produced locally.

 

Matters were not helped either by local knitwear companies and stockists buying their wool from the mainland.

 

On a brighter note for the future;

There are over 800 local wool producers still operating and 1 lerwick business buys over 80% of the Shetland wool clip.  That is a fairly good basis for some kind of 'revival'.



#10 Claadehol

Claadehol

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 354 posts

Posted 12 September 2020 - 11:04 PM

What a strange question George!



#11 Colin

Colin

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2449 posts

Posted 13 September 2020 - 06:38 AM

 

UK vessels were decommissioned and burnt wholesale, while Spain received millions from the EU to exploit UK waters.

 

I wonder what pecentage of the U.K vessels are Scottish, what percentage are Shetlandic or if they don't now the difference?

 

I did see some kind of figures (a long time ago) that seemed to show that the spread was fairly even (on a pro-rata basis).

I have no direct knowledge  as such but;

The main problem is that the boats were scrapped (and jobs lost) but their  Fishing Licences were being bought by 'foreign' interests.  The net effect was to reduce the British fishing effort in favour of 'big business' type foreign interests.  The scrappage scheme simply 'sold' our fishing industry to places outwith our direct control.

 

I guess that is one of the reasons that the EU is desperate to retain fishing rights.   Having exhausted their own(?) fishing grounds, they NEED the food it provides.

 

The CFP was also a disaster(?) for British fishing.



#12 JGHR

JGHR

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 221 posts

Posted 13 September 2020 - 07:58 AM

On a brighter note for the future;
There are over 800 local wool producers still operating and 1 lerwick business buys over 80% of the Shetland wool clip.  That is a fairly good basis for some kind of 'revival'.


That is because the 800 odd wool producers all rely on EU subsidy to remain viable. Once that is lost in a year or so from now there will be very few, if any, left.

Good luck with your 'revival'.



#13 NullVoid

NullVoid

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 348 posts

Posted 13 September 2020 - 08:45 AM


That is because the 800 odd wool producers all rely on EU subsidy to remain viable. Once that is lost in a year or so from now there will be very few, if any, left.

Good luck with your 'revival'.

 

 

The product and the sale thereof should be where the funding for its continued production comes from.

Unless there is good reason for the government to be subsidizing something it should not be subsidized!

 

Prior to the items being protected one could have purchased products made outside of Shetland and simply declared that the product was a Shetland product because the merchant insists it was made in the Shetland style.

 

Counterfeiters may hypothetically say their product is "Shetland Style" but if these products are "protected" only the authentic articles can be sold as authentic Shetland wool/Knitwear.

and if this is a pedigree with a good enough reputation for somebody to counterfeit should the product not stand on its own merit rather than be on lifesupport via subsidies?

 

And if the amount of Knitters shrinks that's just more customers for whoever keeps doing it



#14 Claadehol

Claadehol

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 354 posts

Posted 13 September 2020 - 09:18 AM

JGHR seems to believe, (like many others), that agricultural subsidies began with the EU. That is simply not the case, these subsidies existed long before that.

 

And EU subsidies to less well off countries like Romania hasn't done sheep farmers any favours here.



#15 JGHR

JGHR

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 221 posts

Posted 13 September 2020 - 09:48 AM

JGHR seems to believe, (like many others), that agricultural subsidies began with the EU. That is simply not the case, these subsidies existed long before that.


How much is the subsidy going to be once the one from the EU stops?
 

And EU subsidies to less well off countries like Romania hasn't done sheep farmers any favours here.


Do you think EU subsidies to better of places like Shetland have done sheep farmers here any favours?