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Shetland's proposed windfarm - Viking Energy

windfarm renewable energy viking energy charitable trust

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#1 trout

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 09:10 PM

(** MOD EDIT ** Title altered from "Undersea Electric Cable & Renewable Energy" on Mon Feb 19, 2007 @ 9:37 am to be more reflective of proposed windfarm project. 24/03/09 - "added Viking Energy to title)

We've heard some of the pros for such a cable - as in it making the proposed 600MW wind power scheme the largest community-backed wind farm development in Europe and a potential reality!

Would anyone care to throw into the mix some of the cons against it:

Out to you guys ....



#2 JustMe

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 10:06 PM

Just the obvious point that we will likely be left depending on electricity coming up the cable to meet Shetlands power needs when the wind fails. All well and good until some ship breaks the cable and we then have a very long power cut.

#3 trout

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 08:27 AM

Have there been any figures bandied as to what size (load) of cable is being laid?

#4 Guest_Anonymous_*

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 09:15 AM

Mind those parasites the Crown estate want a huge levy every year for rent, I mind hearing it was hundred of thousands!

Surley this should be waved if Shetlands renewable energy would help the UK as a whole. But no way as they are only interested in profit and PR.

#5 trout

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 09:35 AM

The government at present is considering the future of our energy consumption - and its looking ever nearer that we are going to have a half-dozen (at least) nuclear power stations planted around the UK.

What with a power connector to the mainland from Shetland - would Shetland not be in a powerful position to have one of the stations situated here?

Not everyones cup of tea - not entirely sure if its mine! But imagine if one were - it'd be a whole new age industry on Shetlands doorstep and a massive employer for the next half century!

#6 Guest_Anonymous_*

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 12:23 PM

The real problem is the cost of the actual cable and the laying of cable which is in excess of a hundred million pounds and that is just to transport electricity to the northern tip of Scotland. You then have to add on the cost of providing a cable that takes the electricity to the central belt where it is actually needed!

#7 trout

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 12:26 PM

The real problem is the cost of the actual cable and the laying of cable which is in excess of a hundred million pounds and that is just to transport electricity to the northern tip of Scotland. You then have to add on the cost of providing a cable that takes the electricity to the central belt where it is actually needed!


Hello GK.

The beauty in all this would surely be that the SE and or EU would be paying for it - especially if it'll keep Scotlands economic power house, the central belt, in lightbulbs!

#8 trout

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 09:51 PM

Latest news from the Scotsman:

THE Scottish Labour Party yesterday agreed to support the building of nuclear power stations north of the Border.

In a surprise move on the final day of the party conference in Aviemore, delegates overwhelmingly approved a call for ageing nuclear plants to be replaced or renewed.


Just to go with my last post on this topic.

#9 trout

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 10:21 AM

With relevance to the following thread:

Councillors' expenses

"a four-day trip by Cllr Hawkins to attend a European conference on nuclear waste management in Madrid"

?!?!?!?

I'm sure Blair and the rest of his cabinet can't wait to hear feedback from Cllr Hawkins to enable them to complete their latest NWM policy.

What other possible reason would a councillor from Shetland have for attending such and event? Unless, of course, there are a load of Nuclear Waste Processing plants in the pipeline that "they" are not telling us about...

I assume the conclusions reached by these seemingly frivolous trips are documented and justified in report form, freely available to the public who pay for them?


"a four-day trip by Cllr Hawkins to attend a European conference on nuclear waste management in Madrid"

?!?!?!?

I'm sure Blair and the rest of his cabinet can't wait to hear feedback from Cllr Hawkins to enable them to complete their latest NWM policy.

What other possible reason would a councillor from Shetland have for attending such and event? Unless, of course, there are a load of Nuclear Waste Processing plants in the pipeline that "they" are not telling us about...

I assume the conclusions reached by these seemingly frivolous trips are documented and justified in report form, freely available to the public who pay for them?


I for one would love to see output from such a trip!

Check this fanciful but not out of bounds opinion

Slip in an undersea cable under the premise of use of wind power. Realise wind power isn't all it's cracked up financially to be in ten years time - bang in a few nuclear power stations and or dumps.


"a four-day trip by Cllr Hawkins to attend a European conference on nuclear waste management in Madrid"

?!?!?!?

I'm sure Blair and the rest of his cabinet can't wait to hear feedback from Cllr Hawkins to enable them to complete their latest NWM policy.

What other possible reason would a councillor from Shetland have for attending such and event? Unless, of course, there are a load of Nuclear Waste Processing plants in the pipeline that "they" are not telling us about...

I assume the conclusions reached by these seemingly frivolous trips are documented and justified in report form, freely available to the public who pay for them?


I for one would love to see output from such a trip!

Check this fanciful but not out of bounds opinion

Slip in an undersea cable under the premise of use of wind power. Realise wind power isn't all it's cracked up financially to be in ten years time - bang in a few nuclear power stations and or dumps.


I am absolutely sure that you are right. It's something that I have been saying for some time too. This is why tidal power is never mentioned. You don't need a subsea cable to the UK mainland for tidal.

My prediction is that the nuclear power station will be oot wast or up in Unst. Whatever the costs, the government will consider that it is worth the price.


Wind power is only in the limelight as the EU are throwing millions at it in my opinion. When the funding finishes - and governments haven't met their "green" deadlines... where else are they going to turn?!

Well, they're already turning towards the most financially sound option - and thats nuclear! How far away is Shetland from the rest of the UK and any possible harm to the central belt of Scotland?

Blair: "Well theres only a handful of people there!"

McConnell : " :lol: yeah .. theres more people in Livingston, infact theres more folk in Livingston than there is in Inverness 8O .. and we made that a City!!! :lol: "

Blair: ":lol: , Excellent - we could employ them all to shovel our sh*t"


This line of talk should be kept in this thread .. thanks :)

#10 Atomic

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 11:02 AM

We've heard some of the pros for such a cable - as in it making the proposed 600MW wind power scheme the largest community-backed wind farm development in Europe and a potential reality!

Would anyone care to throw into the mix some of the cons against it:

Out to you guys ....


Hi-i Trout, to answer your question about the cons of an undersea power cable from Shetland to the mainland:

According to my 'source' 8) employed in Scottish Power Glasgow's National Policy dept, the price of physically laying the cable, although astronomical, isn't the real reason why this isn't cost-effective for the National Grid.

It's all about how the Electricity network as a whole works in the UK. In essence, you have 3 steps:

the Electricity generator companies produce electricity and sell it to the National Grid;
the Electricty Businesses (Hydro, etc) buy it from the National Grid;
then the consumer buys it from the Hydro etc.

It's a lot like the city traders in the stock exchange, they bid, buy and sell like crazy to and from the grid desperate for the best possible price.

The relevant factor for Electricity is the dramatic fluctuations in demand. When it's getting dark, everyone in the area puts on their lights. At roughly mealtimes, demand increases hugely as cookers, microwaves & kettles turn on. In the UK the most densely-populated area is the south-east quarter of England. So at any time of the day, and particularly peak times, their usage will be disproprotionately higher than elsewhere.

Now back to the 3 steps. Electricity is produced, it is stored on the National Grid, then it is released on demand.

Most demand is in the south-east, but we are as far north as you can get. The problem is it's very expensive to transport Electricity. Power lines are transformed to high voltage/ low wattage to reduce heat-loss but is still really inefficient. This means that most Electricity companies will prefer to buy electricity from generators as near to their customers as possible, to maximize their profits. There are already generators in the rural highlands of Scotland who really struggle to compete with those further south because those several hundred miles of transportation can make a big difference when you're looking at millions of customers.

If we were producing electricity to join the Grid and we were in Aviemore we'd have a hard enough time being profitable but when you add on the burden of recouping the expense of a massive 200 mile undersea cable it is not financially viable until the Electricity watchdogs set new regulations to favour the more remote renewable energy producers. Hope this helps, and correct me if I'm wrong if anybody knows anything more to add. Ta.

#11 BigMouth

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 12:32 PM

Interesting points atomic. All I would say is that the cheapest alternative may not be the alternative chosen. No Prime Mininster would put a power station in a marginal area for his party for instance.

There is a real bad case of the nimby's down south, and this is just when the name wants to erect a shed, or they want to house travellers somewhere, or build a drug rehab centre, or an industrial estate etc. etc. etc.. With the huge amount of road and house building going on in the south-east there are less and less "desolate" areas where a nuclear power station could be sited.

What better, if you live in London, to put it in someone elses back yard, especially if it si a long way away.

I say lets have nuclear here. We could use an efficient department of the SIC to run it. My vote is for the ferries department :D

#12 JustMe

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 12:54 PM

Well thats an interesting thought. Norwegians would not like it but the UK government could spin the plan as a way to "save" Unst.

I spent most of my teenage years within sight of a nuclear power station and I have to say I was not bothered by it then and I do not see why I should be bothered now.

#13 peeriebryan

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 01:21 PM

I spent most of my teenage years within sight of a nuclear power station and I have to say I was not bothered by it then and I do not see why I should be bothered now.

Is that why you've got three eyes in your picture? :wink:

#14 BigMouth

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 02:05 PM

I spent most of my teenage years within sight of a nuclear power station and I have to say I was not bothered by it then and I do not see why I should be bothered now.

Is that why you've got three eyes in your picture? :wink:


There could be worse below the neck 8O 8O 8O

#15 trout

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 02:08 PM

lol .. all I can think of now is Mr burns "Blinky" fish out the Simpsons


*Bliiinkkky*





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