Should Britain follow France and ban the Burka?

[Pleepsie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8113778.stm

 

Nicolas Sarkozy in Versailles during his first state of the nation address to France's two chambers, the National Assembly and the Senate.

 

...But it was the French leader's attack on the burka that really caused a stir.

 

He expressed his strong distaste for the head-to-toe Islamic veil, calling it not a sign of religion but a sign of subservience.

 

"It will not be welcome on French soil," he said." We cannot accept, in our country, women imprisoned behind a mesh, cut off from society, deprived of all identity. That is not the French republic's idea of women's dignity."

 

...They are in response to a call last week by a group of 65 cross-party MPs, led by the Communist Andre Gerin, who wants a parliamentary commission set up to investigate the spread of the burka in France.

 

They want to see whether such a spread is indicative of a radicalisation of Islam, whether women are being forced to cover themselves or are doing so voluntarily, and whether wearing the burka undermines French secularism.

 

 

This is from a letter in today's Times.

 

 

Sir, While I oppose Nicolas Sarkozy’s right-wing and pro-American agenda, I commend the French leader for questioning the validity of full-face veiling for Muslim women (report, June 23). The Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford (Meco) has championed the unequivocal right of Muslim women not to wear either the hijab (headscarf) or face covering (niqab/burka) in the light of pristine Koranic teachings.

 

 

While Muslim women should be at liberty to decide what to wear, they have to be truthful and say that they are upholding cultural mores and tribal traditions when they veil their faces. They cannot honestly claim that this trendy fad, which evokes understandable fear and negativity in European society, is a koranic imperative or a religious duty.

 

Dr T. Hargey

Chairman, Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article6571025.ece[/url]

 

I personally think it should be banned as many women will be made to wear the veil through fear of reprisals from the men in their family if they do not comply.

 

I also believe that the young women who loudly proclaim that they embrace the veil stems from pressure from males within the family group.

 

Modesty in dress can be achieved without being swathed head to toe in a burka. I notice that all the men are able to 'be modestly dressed' without resorting to the burka.

[JAStewart]

The depth of this issue is huge. It is by no means as simple as saying "Do not wear the Burka".

 

In 1979 following the Iranian revolution when the Burka was initially banned, women continued to wear it in protest.

 

You have to understand that our culture is so different from the Middle East that we can't really compare our freedoms to theirs. Feminism is a Western concept which tries to impose Western ideals and beliefs onto Middle Eastern women. I don't necessarily disagree with W-Fems but understand that anti-western feelings in the Middle East encourage ME women to wear the veil, especially when Westerners tell them not to. Again, its a protest.

 

As far as banning the veil - can we ban the cross? I think that it imprisons someone in a false belief. Its degrading to believe in something as ludicrious as Noah's Ark. Its undignified and embarrassing to try and explain how the world was 'created' 6000 years ago and Adam and Eve and all that for a religious person. That is not MY idea's of someone's dignity - can we ban it pretty please?

 

That is not the French republic's idea of women's dignity.

Who is to say that your countries view of women is the best, Mr S? Don't French women steriotypically not shave their legs or armpits? Is this the image of women you wish to create? Oh and while we're talking about womens dignity Mr S, why are women still not paid equally to men? Thats pretty undignified.

But what if it is the wearers' idea? In the ME, the Burka is actually a respect towards women in certain situations - men won't just attack or rape someone in a Burka.

 

The Koran says nothing about men and women being unequal, and indeed in book 4 suggests that women might be slightly better than men, on account of their ability to give birth.

 

I don't like the Hijab, Burka or any other Middle Eastern religious garment, and when I see someone wearing some of it, I only pity them for believing in falsehoods (religion in general) and probably sweating like hell.

 

I also believe that the young women who loudly proclaim that they embrace the veil stems from pressure from males within the family group.

This is an assumption. To prove or disprove it you would need to have a study done on ME families who's husbands have left/died and see if the children are still raised with the garments, otherwise this is just an assumption.

 

Modesty in dress can be achieved without being swathed head to toe in a burka. I notice that all the men are able to 'be modestly dressed' without resorting to the burka.

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-2/Ayatollah-Ali-Khamenei.jpg

 

Maybe not a Burka, but plenty of other ridiculious clothes.

[Claudias]

^ ^ ^

 

Please tell us what is ridiculous about the above gentleman's clothing. It bears a remarkable similarity to the outfit worn by the headmaster of the grammar school I attended sixty years ago.

[JAStewart]

In my opinion,

 

The hat tall, and looks more like a sofa cushion.

He wears a big robe which does not give proper mobility to his arms.

 

Some leaders in the Middle East also wear wack gear:

 

 

 

http://www.sakhr.com/press/press/images_big/Leaders_big.jpg

[Claudias]

^ ^ ^

 

People in the Middle East wear that type of clothing because of the heat and dust. Western clothing with restrictive cut and belts,braces etc. soon raises problems for visitors to hot countries. Please give them credit for learning something over the centuries.

[nederlander]

In my opinion,

 

The hat tall, and looks more like a sofa cushion.

He wears a big robe which does not give proper mobility to his arms.

 

Some leaders in the Middle East also wear wack gear

 

And I am sure that in their opinion what you wear looks utterly ridiculous!

[JAStewart]

In my opinion,

 

The hat tall, and looks more like a sofa cushion.

He wears a big robe which does not give proper mobility to his arms.

 

Some leaders in the Middle East also wear wack gear

 

And I am sure that in their opinion what you wear looks utterly ridiculous!

I do wear ridiculious clothing. But thats because I live in a society which permits at least some (albeit) limited freedoms.

 

Would they ban me wearing it?

[JAStewart]

^ ^ ^

 

People in the Middle East wear that type of clothing because of the heat and dust. Western clothing with restrictive cut and belts,braces etc. soon raises problems for visitors to hot countries. Please give them credit for learning something over the centuries.

I'm not here to call them stupid. Far from it. I don't think we should ban their clothing.

 

But we can agree that black is a bad colour to wear in heat?

 

http://www.hyscience.com/burka.jpg

[paulb]

no black is a good colour to wear. Why should we tell people what they should and should not wear. the scots were unhappy when the wearing of the tarten was banned. and lets be honest a badly worn kilt is dafter than any berka. infact viking costums should also be banned very sad. but thats ok because were more advanced than them so we know best.

[Pleepsie]

 

I also believe that the young women who loudly proclaim that they embrace the veil stems from pressure from males within the family group.

This is an assumption. To prove or disprove it you would need to have a study done on ME families who's husbands have left/died and see if the children are still raised with the garments, otherwise this is just an assumption.

 

Sadly, that would be a pointless study, for if the husband left/died then the eldest son of the family would become 'head' and they would be subject to his rules - even if he was only a child himself. Uncles, Cousins, Brothers will become 'head' before a woman is allowed to rule herself.

 

There is no freedom of choice for women - unless that choice reflects the wishes of the head of the family, and that isn't really a choice at all.

 

 

 

 

 

But what if it is the wearers' idea? In the ME, the Burka is actually a respect towards women in certain situations - men won't just attack or rape someone in a Burka.

 

Men won't attack a woman outside of the house in the ME because she is not allowed out without a male member of her family as an escort. There are plenty of attacks and rape that go on inside the home and the poor women have to put up with it or as a last resort they commit suicide.

[paulb]

and rape is an islamic problem. islam is not evil its not even anti women. its the asian culture that put women down. it was not islam that kept the women in the house in afganistan its the culture.

[Michael]

Asian culture? Bit of a broad thing to generalise about don't you think?

 

Anyway, i'm opposed to a ban on burkha's. Its it not the hijab most people complain about anyway? (not that i'm in favour of banning that either)

[MJ]

rape isn't just an Islamic problem, just look at the latest figure in south Africa, it is a cultural problem (here in Scotland too).

Muhammad taught equality and encouraged women to learn, which was seen as radical back then.

The burka, is something that puzzles me, I never saw one the entire time I stayed in France, the area being mainly North African may have been a reason. It wasn't until after 9/11 that they became apparent in the UK, well at least to me. I noticed a big change in peoples dress as people became more and more anti Muslim. Far from hiding their religion folk seemed more determined to stand by their faith.

As horrible as the burka may seem and look, banning it is not going to change things for the better, some folk will just see it as an attack on their religion. Why not ban the christian sects from their head scarfs they force their women to wear, or turbans on Sikh men?

Many of us females are in debt to Muslim girls that they successfully managed to force state schools to allow girls to wear trousers and that was just over a decade ago. Made all the difference for all girls come the snow no matter what their religion.

[Styles]

Whos to tell whos under all that. Its the perfect disguse for fleeing the country as a man etc or not wanting to be seen on cctv.

[MJ]

There is nothing wrong with another female checking to see who's under a burka. British ports by law have to have female security guards, see no problem.