Jump to content

  • Log in with Twitter Log In with LinkedIn Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

With your Shetlink login details, all classifieds, private messages, and invoices are now accessed through the new Njord | Market system. Please see Njord | Market FAQ for more details.

Photo

A Real Chance for Shetland Home Rule

scottish independance shetland independance fishing industry oil industry

  • Please log in to reply
220 replies to this topic

#1 Mutton

Mutton

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 122 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 07:31 AM

The referendum on Scottish independence will come.

I believe that Shetland must start thinking of its constitutional position now. Does Shetland want to be part of an independent Scotland?

If Scotland says yes, but Shetland says no, Shetland could remain part of the United Kingdom if that's what Shetland demands. It would provide a fascinating oportunity for Shetland to redraw its own relationship with the UK. If it remained part of the UK it could push for more autonomy along the same terms as Isle of Mann.

However, if Shetland is to have an 'opt out' clause, the Council, our MSP and MP must act now. An opt out is not something SNP will give in to easily (loss of oil revenue). Negotiations would be long and hard. The outcome of negotiations with SNP may be that Shetland could become an autonomous region within Scotland if it agreed to independence.

The fact is that Shetland is in a great position when it comes to negotiations on its constitutional status thanks to its oil reserves. Both the Scottish Government and the UK Government would be willing to let Shetland have more control over its own affairs in return for securing the oil revenue.

It's up to the Shetland public, SIC, Tavish Scott MSP and Alistair Carmichael MP to take this opportunity of a life time head on.



#2 Kavi Ugl

Kavi Ugl

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1395 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 09:16 AM

I agree 100% and mentioned this is the election thread.

JA Stewart mentions the ZCC Act but Edinburgh has been trying for years to water it down and get it taken away by the back door so I'm not sure if it's much of a foundation.

Sadly, I have little confidence in any present-day SIC taking the initiative and putting a plan in place for Shetland - unless they are severely lobbied by the public. Pehaps now is the time for a new Shetland political party, or even a renewed Shetland Movement in time for the Shetland elections next year.

I also feel that we shouldn't rule out negotiations with Norway - I see absolutely no point in staying with "Great Britain". It has been half of Shetland's problems and the truth is "Great Britain" is finished anyway.

Full independance or sensible home rule under Norway's wing would be my answer but whatever people feel, at the very, very least we need to have a debate about what we're going to do - and start it now.

#3 George.

George.

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1353 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 10:12 AM

I agree 100% and mentioned this is the election thread.

JA Stewart mentions the ZCC Act but Edinburgh has been trying for years to water it down and get it taken away by the back door so I'm not sure if it's much of a foundation.

Sadly, I have little confidence in any present-day SIC taking the initiative and putting a plan in place for Shetland - unless they are severely lobbied by the public. Pehaps now is the time for a new Shetland political party, or even a renewed Shetland Movement in time for the Shetland elections next year.

I also feel that we shouldn't rule out negotiations with Norway - I see absolutely no point in staying with "Great Britain". It has been half of Shetland's problems and the truth is "Great Britain" is finished anyway.

Full independance or sensible home rule under Norway's wing would be my answer but whatever people feel, at the very, very least we need to have a debate about what we're going to do - and start it now.


A new Shetland political party could offer great potential to us and help to drive us toward Norway. This would be of great benefit to us as it has to be accepted that the UK is not what it was, now it is a lapdog to the US and accepting all new-comers, regardless.

In moving on we have a good point of argument. We have the oil revenues to use to get both the UK government and Norway to claim that they love us.

With these possibilities ahead, why sit and wait. Surely we should take action now instead of waiting and supposedly thinking while it all drifts away!!!

#4 Guest_CyprusPluto_*

Guest_CyprusPluto_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:12 AM

Mutton, these are very well thought out and astute observations. Your suggestions have to be a consideration.

Kavi Ugl, not sure about the Norway link though, but then I haven't given it much consideration so wouldn't condemn it without proper thought and more insight.

#5 Spinner72

Spinner72

    Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPip
  • 1967 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:46 AM

Unfortunately none of this is new and as has already been proven in the reactions to Stuart Hill and others various attempts at suggesting any form of independance for Shetland, the vast majority of the population just aren't interested.

Change, of any sort, it seems, is a thing of the past..

#6 Kavi Ugl

Kavi Ugl

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1395 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 12:50 PM

Yes Spinner72, you could well be right about the lack of interest and my fear is that Shetlanders will just lie down and get sucked into an independant Scotland.

Then again, the votes for Billy Fox show that when there's something to vote for peoples' interest perks up and they make the effort.

So, in other words if there was a political party/movement to vote for and all people had to do was put their cross in the box then there may be interest and movement.

However, failing this, this is where the next SIC needs to step up to the plate and deal with the issue. They need to start a Shetland-wide debate with public meetings and then hold a referendum with the various options on it.

They could be:

1. Stay with the "UK" and be ruled from London.

2. Go with an indepndant Scotland.

3. Go for full Shetland independance with sovreign control of our land and seas(incl oil and gas fields).

4. Open negotiations with Norway with a view to returning to Norway.

It is very surprising how many people concede in private that Stuart Hill is right but the problem for many is how he went about it.

#7 stephen

stephen

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 133 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 01:05 PM

I continue to read such threads with amazement.

They could be:

1. Stay with the "UK" and be ruled from London.

2. Go with an indepndant Scotland.

3. Go for full Shetland independance with sovreign control of our land and seas(incl oil and gas fields).


The problem with this is that the Oil and Gas reserves belong to the North Sea which is (constitutionally part of the UK). If the UK is broken up, negotiations would need to take place to see who this belongs to. I doubt very much that London would give up on this and if they do I see it even less likely that a Scottish Government would.

It is also a very poor idea to think that you can base an economy on one industry. It just doesn't work in the longer term.

4. Open negotiations with Norway with a view to returning to Norway.


In what world would you think Norway would want Shetland? The cost to change the infrastructure (hospitals, schools, road signage etc) would be huge. Add in the massive subsidies that would need to be paid to air and ferry companies - it doesn't make that much sense top take on Shetland.

The historical link between Shetland and Noway is just that, historical. Through my experience working with people from Norway, they know very little of Shetland. I would find it amazing that they (as in the country) would wish to make the commitment to 'take on' Shetland.

I think the idea of Shetland standing alone is nice in theory, but would not be viable. Take away any major revenue from Oil and Shetland has very little other than Knitting and Lamb. I love this place dearly, but it is folly to think that a range of islands with the combined population of a large town could become a separate country.

#8 George.

George.

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1353 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 02:09 PM

I certainly understand the argument Stephen but if we were to start a "Shetland Party", looking out solely for ourselves, or moving to Norway, then surely we would end up nothing better than better off???

#9 gafynandrew

gafynandrew

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 177 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 02:44 PM

An autonomous Shetland......a scary proposition with the current crop of local councillors that we have :(

#10 Kavi Ugl

Kavi Ugl

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1395 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 02:48 PM

@ Stephen, haven't you been listening to Stuart Hill?!. There is no legal document or treaty in existance that makes Shetland a part of Scotland, and therefore Great Britain.

We are living under coloniallism. The cold truth is that Shetland is just a convienient little lump of rock that gives Great Britain a hold on the oil and gas fields. I mentioned in a previous post on Shetlink that the UK Government didn't even want Total's new gas plant built here. Thankfully, Norway puts more value on her lands than this and so Shetland as a part of Norway would be just that - a recognised and valued part of Norway.

I can assure you that Norway would welcome Shetland with open arms and the transfer, although it would take time for everything to settle down, is well within Norway's ability to deal with.

I stumbled across a forum a couple of weeks ago while looking at pictures of Shetland on google images and one of the contributers was a Norwegian who stated in his post that "Shetland still belongs to Norway".

Shetland returning to Norway is no more significant than Scotland going independant.

#11 exciseman

exciseman

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 162 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 03:31 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Shetland never actually ‘belonged’ to Norway – Shetland ‘belonged’ to Denmark when Christian I mortgaged us to Scotland 542 years ago.

The Scottish Parliament has no powers to have a referendum that would lead to automatic independence for Scotland – any referendum would only empower the Scottish government to seek a negotiated settlement with the UK by which Scotland would leave the Union.

In the last referendum I believe that Shetland and Orkney had a dispensation from the UK government by which they could remain part of the UK if they so wished – but that is a long way from saying we have any right to negotiate to become ‘part’ of a foreign and non-EU country such as Norway.

#12 George.

George.

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1353 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 03:41 PM

Would it not be a good time time then to consider both who we belong to and who we wish to belong to, if anybody?

#13 Guest_Anonymous_*

Guest_Anonymous_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 May 2011 - 03:50 PM

Shetland never actually ‘belonged’ to Norway – Shetland ‘belonged’ to Denmark when Christian I mortgaged us to Scotland 542 years ago.



Better check the facts on that one exiseman.
Christian 1 was king of a united Norway Sweden and Denmark, and he was king here and Orkney Faroe Iceland and Greenland.
he may of been our king but under the udal system he most certainly did not own the land.

#14 exciseman

exciseman

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 162 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 03:51 PM

Would it not be a good time time then to consider both who we belong to and who we wish to belong to, if anybody?


Perhaps - but getting more than half the population of Shetland even remotely interested would be a major challenge - we are really a apathetic lot when you consider the low turn-out at the election on Thursday.

#15 exciseman

exciseman

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 162 posts

Posted 07 May 2011 - 03:52 PM

Shetland never actually ‘belonged’ to Norway – Shetland ‘belonged’ to Denmark when Christian I mortgaged us to Scotland 542 years ago.



Better check the facts on that one exiseman.
Christian 1 was king of a united Norway Sweden and Denmark, and he was king here and Orkney Faroe Iceland and Greenland.
he may of been our king but under the udal system he most certainly did not own the land.

Never said he did





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: scottish independance, shetland independance, fishing industry, oil industry